1975-Man-As-A-Liar-University-of-Pittsburgh
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| Title | 1975-Man-As-A-Liar-University-of-Pittsburgh |
| Recorded date | (unknown) <<< probably 1975 -- see notes |
| Location | University of Pittsburgh |
| Number of tapes | 1 x 60 |
| Other recorders audible? | |
| Alternate versions exist? | |
| Source | SN - only copy |
| No. of MP3 files | 2 |
| Total time | 45 minutes |
| Transcription status | 1st pass, first 20 min only, on Jan 12, 2015 |
| Link to distribution copy | http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ (need password) |
| Link to PDF | http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ Or try http://selfdefinition.org/rose/ |
| Published in what book? | |
| Published on which website? | |
| Remarks | |
| Audio quality | |
| Identifiable voices | |
| URL at direct-mind.org | https://www.direct-mind.org/index.php/1975-Man-As-A-Liar-University-of-Pittsburgh |
| For access to this wiki or the audio files please send an email to: editors@direct-mind.org | |
| Revision timestamp | 20150113005835 |
Notes
Recording says 2 versions, SN and DM – can’t find DM, need to look for it.
SN = 2 files = 31 min + 14 min.
Probably 1975
Two date references so far:
Should likely be 1975 because he mentions Transmission Papers (Wikipedia says 1975, is this correct? Was there a private copy first?) and he mentions Norbu Chen as being recent.
Says the Fate Magazine issue with Norbu Chen was “a couple issues back”. That issue was August 1974. In 1974-75 Fate was a monthly (see spreadsheet) so by this, the date would be late 1974 or early 1975. But Rose is very general about past dates and often underestimates the passage of time.
http://selfdefinition.org/norbu-chen/norbu-chen-fate-magazine-august-1974-full-article.htm
Closest thing on the list of missing tapes is 1975-1002-University-of-Pittsburgh-missing-tape
File 1, first pass
File 1 = length 31:23
To Frank: R. ... right, I don’t talk too loud ...
F. That will be good; that’s why I got the mic. It’s got a condensed mic, you can’t really hear it from up here, so on the floor ?? right here it’s great.
There’s one truth I haven’t discovered yet, and that’s about the common cold. So if any of you have it, [know it] why, let me know. Because of that lack of knowledge, I might not talk as long as I generally talk, in which case I’ll turn the meeting over pretty much to a dialog of sorts. I’ll answer questions, in other words.
My talk tonight has to do with the reasons for the so-called spiritual search. And I come up with the idea, or the conviction at least, that man is a race of liars. And a race of liars cannot find the truth, and the majority of these people will never find the truth. But those who are able to witness the errors and discrepancies and inconsistencies may somehow break away from that mass of people who are playing the game, and do something about it.
01:23
And you may not think this. We engage in this game and we agree to it. And there’s a tremendous mutual back-scratching that goes on: you tell your lie and I’ll tell my lie, and we won’t interfere with each other. Like the deal between the alienist and the judge: one gets a license and the other gets some support when he wants to send somebody to prison as being sane. But anyhow the doctor, we take the doctor: he sells us placebos. He claims de doesn’t, he has a certain good code that he operates by. But there’s more than one way to lie than being a liar [an outright liar] – you can neglect things. You can neglect to help people when you’re protesting that you do help them. You can keep your practice going. For instance a leg brace, a knee brace may cost you about fifteen dollars, and to take out a C cartilage might take six hundred dollars. So we find that they generally recommend the operation. Because two operations a day is better than one operations a day, especially when you’re getting five or six hundred dollars apiece. They don’t always tell the truth,
02:49
The dentists lie. They tell you they’re busy. These professional people make themselves hard to get. They’re very valuable, you must wait in line. I’ve been to the bother to check a few of them out, and they’re not very busy. They keep things going that way. The mechanic, he overhauls your car; he talks about getting them for the bundle. You drive in and if it’s a lady driving he may find that she needs a new battery when she really doesn’t, something of that sort.
So we’re going down through these just in case you think that all these, that everybody is, that there are just a few here and there. The man who builds our houses lies. he builds cracker boxes. And how does he do it? With the aid of lying inspectors, lying government agents, FHA people. And the government goes along with this. A lot of the merchandise that we get is a, has a short life. And the food we get is, the meat’s full of water. The druggist sells us pills that have a fractional value. Now I got this from a druggist myself. Check it out; you don’t have to take my word for it.
04:11
They give them a name, a very complex title, and by the time the Food and Drug Administration checks this stuff for the actual value in it and tells these people, “Now this thing is only worth two cents a pill, and you’re charging fifty cents a pill,” they change the name. And they add a few molecules o corn starch or something, and again the Food and Drug Administration has to start all over again and reexamine the pill and qualify [again] it for certain price.
04:38
So in the case of building and many of the, the merchandise that hits us today, that is highly advertized – and the lie is in the advertisement, that this thing is good. It isn’t good; it has a high turnover. And this is encouraged by the government because it gets taxes: every time a new item is sold there are more taxes for the government. So that obsolescence goes along with out system.
05:11
The newspapers lie. that’s our big, shining knight that’s supposed to save us from all these crooks. They lie by direct lie and by omission; if they don’t like you they omit the truth. And then that throws all the weight of the error – the people who are speaking, theoretically, or in mercenary fashion [?] – that puts them in a better light.
But our children see it. They see the judges being bribed, they see the millionaire politicians, and they see the politicians who are persecuting the other politicians as being also liars. They are also convicted. And they see that even the government – if you want to live in this country you almost have to be a liar to survive the ritual we call income taxes. Anybody who gets ahead is a liar. So the thing the children see right off the bat is that you have to be a liar, and you have to learn to lie adroitly.
And the poor honest man – we do not have a system where a man can go before a judge and say, “Yes, I committed something wrong, and I’m sorry. I wish I had more knowledge of what I was doing.” And the judge, very much like God Almighty says, “Well, I have no control of the law and you did this, and you’re going to jail for it. And you saved us a lot of money, thanks for saving us the money, for the trial, for pleading guilty.” But there’s no leeway in our society for, no advantage in our society for telling the truth. Everyone wants to be protected by some guild or trade union. This is not for the good of society, this is the right to extort.
07:08
Education is a lie. It’s a Frankenstein, besides being a lie. The people today, especially our young people, are burdened down under a tremendous weight of garbage classes, which the educators tell them they have to have. You can teach a mother, with a high school education, you can teach children in grade school up to the fourth year, but no, she’s got to go four years to college. They’ve got to go so long to college that, to teach anything, even in high school today you have to have a Master’s degree or PhD. And this protects. This is protecting the guild, that’s all. The result is that by the time you get, by the time you deny yourself normal living until you’re 30 years of age, you’re not fit to teach anybody. This is the – the larger percentage of people are disgusted, alcoholics or they’re burnt out dope addicts by the time they get to be a PhD. Or I’ve been looking at he wrong people. [?] This is all to fatten up the system, that’s become entity-conscious. It becomes an entity, and the entity has to feed itself. Like, don’t let too many people into the medical profession; keep them out and the prices up. Don’t let too many in the brick-laying profession, this sort of thing.
08:41
The people who are supposed to protect our justice are some of the biggest liars. We live daily in a jungle in a cave of jeopardy, and a lawyer, when he graduates and passes the bar examination, buys a franchise, for that system of protection. And we cannot protect ourselves except with his permission. We can’t even write up a legal document, unless we want to be arrested for impersonating a lawyer or something, without a license. And yet these are the same people whose money is made by virtue of being experts in tort. They would like to have us believe that, yes, they know the law, but if we give them enough money they can find the loopholes.
09:38
Now let’s go to religion. Either religion is a game, or ... [click? gap? on tape] ... they should teach more than just anything. [?] Belief alone is not sufficient. We’re talking about why kids deviate from the religions of their parents and that sort of thing. Bu you could look around you: we have a sort of paganism; we’ve thrown out the old icons and we’re worshipping glossy pictures now. Religion – of course some of them have gone into other phases of belief, transcendentalism they call it, esoteric philosophy; but it’s still a system of belief.
10:38
All of these things should have some function, or they’re lying. There’s some function that should be attributed to these movements. And what is that function.? To make youy feel better? To make your business better? – as you see in some of the little pamphlets some of them put out: “Better business”. Is that what we’re after? Or is there some basic question that the other scientists haven’t answered, that religion’s domain should answer? And I think you can narrow them down to three questions that cover it pretty well, and that is: Where did we come from? Who are we? And where are we going? It’s that simple. Where were we before we were born? Who are we now? ...
Q. Where will we be?
R. Thank you. [laughter]
11:34
Religion is a lie, by name-dropping: “God told me to tell you. I’m his emissary. I know the fellow personally, so ...” Or, “I know. My guru was a guru’s guru. [fix] And by that sticky chain we’re glued to heaven,” by some technique or another. By concept structures: A philosophy of concept structures, just saying, “This sounds good, paganism, if we rehash this paganism a bit, we’re going to come up with something that’s more palatable. So let’s try this, throw in some brotherhood now; this is going over pretty good.” By gimmickry: We lie with our gimmickry.
And some of these gimmicks – when I use the word gimmick that sounds like a crude word. But I overemphasize perhaps, because I want to attract attention to things I consider to be very vital. So I may use a harsh word. I consider healing to be a gimmick. I consider techniques that are meditative techniques that bring you peace of mind to be gimmicks. Techniques that are supposed to give you strength, an enormous amount of strength, where you can stick your fist through a steel door or something. I’m not saying that these don’t happen. You can heal. And we have the formulas in our group; there’s a paper written on it, how this is done, how the energy is raised to heal people.
As I mention in this line, you can pick up the Fate Magazine, it was a couple issues back, about a guy named Norbu Chen in Dallas, Texas. He went over to Tibet and paid the fellows a few hundred dollars and they taught him how to heal. Of course, they had to lock him up in a cave until he built up his energy so he could do it. So he came back to Dallas, and he calls it zapping. He looks and talks pretty much like a – at least the quotations I saw in the magazine – like a football player or something. He was, before he went over there he was a secret agent I think fort the Governor of Kentucky, doing some rather cloak and dagger work. And he had to hide out awhile because the people he put in the penitentiary – he went into the penitentiary and posed for the Governor to get information or something. So they wanted him.
14:00
But from there he went to Tibet and he learned this and came back, and now he’s zapping people, he calls it. And it works. He cures them. But the mistake is in tying it immediately – this man doesn’t tie it – he’s just a pragmatic healer. But another fellow comes along with the same technique, he learns a little trick, and he tells you God is on his? side. And then he has you building a church. And the average layman doesn’t have the time. He trusts. It’s like I went into a research laboratory when I was 23 years old; I was working on the atomic submarine. And I was really flattered to work among all these brilliant physicists and mathematicians. And I thought, ‘I’m going to talk to some of these people and see what they think about it. Because they’ve got good computers, these people have trained computers.” (I mean their heads.) “They should have some good answers about the problems of life and death.” So I – one by one, myself and another fellow went through: “What are you thinking, about the riddle of life or death? What do you think happens after you die?” They would be utterly amazed that I even asked the question. They had never thought of it. And finally one fellow said, “Hey. You know what I do? I pay the shoemaker to fix my shoes. I pay the preacher for that. he takes care f that.”
15:16
This is this exalted intellectual that we think knows everything, that we trust as authority. None of them. I didn’t find any of them – some of them had joined a few lofts? lodges? One of them was a 32nd degree Mason, another had joined a few cults to see what he could get out of it. But none of them had any desire, seemingly, to find out about who they were.
15:45
But anyhow, these gimmicks are coming out of India like steel comes out of Pittsburgh. They can’t export anything else but gimmicks. They don’t have too much production over there. So they study these things, and some of them are very valid. And a Frank says, I was initiated. I can’t go into all this stuff tonight. But I was initiated into some of these guru movements; one of them, Kirpal Singh was a schismatic, this group Eckankar was a schismatic of the same thing. And I went in for the purpose of picking up. “What do these people have that is so great? Why do people kneel at their feet?” and all that sort of thing.
16:29
Okay, we go on for [through] the reasons why the religions are – we can find that they’re lying to us. Is this protest of popularity? People go to the church that has the tallest steeple and the best parking lot and the nicest front. And people have this concept too: we have in our minds a disease called democracy. That we think that everything can be settled by it, these millions of ignorant people making a decision. Now I understand that both Cotton Mather and Burke, both of two polar parties, both came up with this realization that the common people can’t think; they can’t come up with anything worthwhile. You would think that if you get 200 million people you’d have a good answer, but it doesn’t seem to work that way.
17:30
But they think that all you have to do is vote. And this is exactly what’s causing all the hell in the country today, where people are voting on social issues and making edicts out of them – which are immoral and are destroying the fiber of our youth. By quoting – when they don’t have any theology, they quote. They quote a book or they quote an important person like Fosdick [?]
18:04
They use undefined terms. This rates a respectful attitude. Terminology. It’s like the doctor when he writes his prescription. It used to be in Latin. Everything was in Latin: this kept the peasants puzzled for a long time. But now we have words like satori. moksha, nirvana, nirvikalpa samadhi – sounds much better, it’s mystifying. And it’s much better to use the word nirvikalpa samadhi than it is enlightenment, because – well, that’s worth a little money even, maybe.
18:53
But we [the group?] use these invalidated [un-validated?] terms also, as the basis for a truth system. And some of the terms involved with philosophy – we automatically, by accepting the word, they? came in the book with the rest of stuff. So we accept them. And as the result of this we accept a whole philosophy without giving it much credit. [?]
Now I’m somewhat critical of course of people who will – we talk a bit of people abandoning Christianity for the Asian movements, and we’re wondering why. But the strange thing is, people have a level, and you’ll find that people who abandon say Christianity for being fictitious, or being emotional, or a devotional movement rather than a philosophical-thinking movement, will go across the sea and pick an identical movement up across the sea, [sentence] they will not pick up a philosophic movement there; they will pick up an emotional movement. If that’s their level, that’s where they’ll go. And they’ll just trade masters, that’s all, they will not raise themselves one iota. But they’ll have a different term for it: instead of “sin” they might use the word “karma”. Or something of that sort.
20:14
Religion has abandoned the search for the soul, or self-definition, and has entered politics. As a social service it wants to be funded. And it’s a manifest charade. Politics needs no help from the God-impostors; it has enough impostors. Religion also makes the observation that spiritual values are priceless: we should never put a price on them. But everywhere you go, you find that there is a price; they’re charging. Well, either bargain days are here, or we’re getting some counterfeit. Because there are a lot of religious leaders flying jet planes back and forth.
21:13 Here are a couple equations I’ll leave with you before I get into psychology 21:15 <<< stopped here with first pass. Rest are noted made earlier
File 2, notes only
File 2 = 14 minutes.
No, I’m the observer of the senses.
We can observe our bodies, senses, and we can observe the process.
As observer, have to admit some sort of duality.
So who is the fellow who acts, who decides?
Many are automatic?
Who is it that reacts?
The answer has to be that I don’t know.
There’s an observer observing himself, or there’s an observer and an actor.
Desire or fear.
Being able to desire is being able to act.
A compulsion?
Does not the witnessing of this compulsion open the door for influencing the compulsion. And if we influence the compulsion we are an actor.
This is great stuff.
Footnotes
Url: place url here
For access, send email to editors@direct-mind.org
Meniscus. Rose, in 1977-1004-Psychology-of-Zen-Science-of-Knowing: “I don’t believe that people commit crimes as much as people are the victims of the crime they commit.” Energy Transmutation, Between-ness and Transmission, 1975 http://selfdefinition.org/norbu-chen/norbu-chen-fate-magazine-august-1974-full-article.htm Actually this is Rose’s term. It does not appear in the Fate article. Alternatively a confidential informant in prison, depending of the source of information. At $500 per treatment (1974 dollars). But he said it put a tremendous strain on him. And he died within about 3 years of the article. Babcock & Wilcox subsidiary plant near Alliance, Ohio. Robert Martin. Radha Soami. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_Mather http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke
