1981-Intensive-Farm
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Data Template
| Title | 1981-Intensive-Farm |
| Recorded date | 1981 |
| Location | Farm |
| Number of tapes | One 90 minute tape (this is a copy of a copy) |
| Other recorders audible? | |
| Alternate versions exist? | |
| Source | N |
| No. of MP3 files | |
| Total time | |
| Transcription status | |
| Link to distribution copy | http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ (need password) |
| Link to PDF | http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ Or try http://selfdefinition.org/rose/ |
| Published in what book? | |
| Published on which website? | |
| Remarks | High priority material on dealing with the public in meetings, first 10-15 minutes of side 2. |
| Audio quality | First 30 minutes quality is fair in that words are distinct, but audio spectrum is telephone quality.
Last 15 minutes of side 1, and all of side 2 has a lot of noise. If this occurred in the duplicating process, a better version may exist somewhere. |
| Identifiable voices | Augie Turak, John Kent, Bill King, Vince Lepedi, Several more |
| URL at direct-mind.org | https://www.direct-mind.org/index.php/1981-Intensive-Farm |
| For access to this wiki or the audio files please send an email to: editors@direct-mind.org | |
| Revision timestamp | 20150104121752 |
Notes
This talk has no "numbers exercise"
So will move this information to separate page Numbers-Exercise
Numbers exercise
See talk page for detective work
Email from Eric Clark Nov 20, 2014
Hi Steve-
Thanks for the leads on finding The Numbers. Turns out Vince Lepidi has a copy, which he is going to mail me. I just heard from him today. I hope we can then place a copy in a members only part of the TAT site. If you Steve would like a copy as well, happy to send it to you as soon as I get it.
PS as far as locating the tapes you mention... I do have emails for some of the people, like Dave Gold and Mike Casari, if you wanted to reach out to them for the tapes?
Thank you- Eric
Email from Vince via Eric Clark Dec. 5, 2014 and prior in chain
Eric:
I do not know whether Rose wrote instructions for doing the numbers, Eric. You'd have to ask other old timers. Did you ask Bob Cergol, Mike Gegenheimer, or Phil Franta? Besides Steve, they were in TAT before me.
I remember Rose describing the purpose of the numbers, but regretably, I forgot exactly what he said. But my general recollection was that the numbers were about keeping one's attention. During the January 1981 intensive at the farm we were paired in twos. There were about 20 of us and we did the numbers in both the farm kitchen and living room. We could hear each other talking and it was difficult for me to concentrate.
Yours truly, Vince
SH note 12/5/2014: so far have checked with Augie M., Eric Clark, Vince, and Eric checked with Bob Cergol.
In the notes, there is no reference to the numbers exercise being done. Have to listen again.
File 1
Side 1 File 1 = 47 minutes.
Tape begins with RR reading questions (midway through the list) in lecture of questions, straight through, without commentary; tape begins with the questions on duration and time.
Then goes into
Does a man own a house or does the house own him? Does a man have power or is he overpowered? Etc.
Who is insane? The man who talks in tongues? The man who is possessed and cannot help himself? Or the professionals who create great volumes of confusing and complex terminology describing nothing but our their frustrating dichotomy? Which is worse, the manic depressives who brood or blather as the result of excessive belief, chemical imbalance … or the alienist who babbles on the witness stand that this or that man should be subjected to ice-pick or shock treatment or electric cure.
Min 14 loud feedback noise, 15 seconds deleted.
Reads “Intuition and Reason”
By … men have improved their intuition.
By … men have improved their reason.
Min 18 Reads “The Mirror”
http://www.direct-mind.org/index.php5?title=Mirror
“oh the glory of meeting a predator
Reads some more questions
Why do you study, or why do you work?
Why do you pursue whatever you're pursuing so actively?
To get a better job? To get a better mate? To get a better position besides just food and shelter?
Etc.
Does a robot have any meaning or purpose beyond the intents of the program? Can a robot program himself to any degree? Can a robot be programmed by other robots for his own good?
Noise at minute 31 – original tape apparently was 60 minute cassette
After tape break the reading has finished.
RR conversing with people. For instance, I wrote a paper on the definition of truth. And I wrote it for the general public.
Refers to written responses to questions he had asked.
Discusses use of language, as example the use of the word “become” and whether or not it has meaning to people. Another example, the word “truth”, what does it mean to people, words “subjective” and “objective”. Is the truth everything that exists? Etc.
So in a public group meeting, you want to be able to give a definition without being attacked.
Reference to “truth is a white swan” material in Zen and Common Sense lecture.
Min 44 Noise of tape changing, but apparently in the duplicating process. This copy may have been created by putting the microphone of one tape recorder next to the speaker of another. (?)
File 2
Side 2 File 2 = 35 minutes.
RR conversing with people about problem of dealing with people in a public meeting with different levels of understanding.
What is a definition? A definition is my ability to convey to you my meaning. Some guy might do it with words, another guy might do it with a parable. A white swan in a blue lake. There’s one thing a speaker has to have before he can go any further.
I made this mistake year after year, in being attacked and trying to define and then being attacked – instead of saying. “Who is asking?” You don’t answer facetiously, you don’t really say, “who’s asking”. You have to determine the many motives and the many types of people from the idiot to the Zen student that are in the audience, and of course even among the Zen students are halfway down to the idiot, because they haven’t develop an intuitive sense.
RR is going over written responses the participants made to certain questions.
More on dealing with the public:
If you answer anybody from what they want to know, there may be 20 different classes of people that you have to reach. A definition is a satisfactory answer that will bring you to the same understanding.
Some people have asked questions to which I have given absurd answers, and they were satisfied. So you tell the guy, “If you take off your shoe you’ll find your foot, right?” Yes. “Well that’s it, absolutely.”
Reference to John Kent’s book.
Reference to Expansion of Awareness by Osborne. Method of certain speakers appeals to a lot of people and doesn’t offend too many.
The answer depends on the questioner. You can touch the mood of the person.
min 22 - Tape change noise
People reading their written responses to questions asked earlier.
No further words by RR.
Tape ends abruptly at minute 35
