1975-Man-As-A-Liar-University-of-Pittsburgh

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Title	1975-Man-As-A-Liar-University-of-Pittsburgh
Recorded date	(unknown) <<< probably 1975 -- see notes
Location	University of Pittsburgh
Number of tapes	1 x 60
Other recorders audible?
Alternate versions exist?
Source	SN - only copy
No. of MP3 files	2
Total time	45 minutes
Transcription status	1st pass, first 20 min only, on Jan 12, 2015
Link to distribution copy	http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ (need password)
Link to PDF	http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ Or try http://selfdefinition.org/rose/
Published in what book?
Published on which website?
Remarks
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URL at direct-mind.org	https://www.direct-mind.org/index.php/1975-Man-As-A-Liar-University-of-Pittsburgh
	For access to this wiki or the audio files please send an email to: editors@direct-mind.org
Revision timestamp	20150116225811

Notes

Recording says 2 versions, SN and DM – can’t find DM, need to look for it.

SN = 2 files = 31 min + 14 min.

Check Dave Gold’s book for possible references to this talk.

Possibly 1975-1002-University-of-Pittsburgh-missing-tape Or maybe the start of 1975-0227-Carnegie-Mellon-Q&A-Pittsburgh << not Pitt, but check

Probably 1975

Two date references so far:

Should likely be 1975 because he mentions Transmission Papers (Wikipedia says 1975, is this correct? Was there a private copy first?) and he mentions Norbu Chen as being recent.

Says the Fate Magazine issue with Norbu Chen was “a couple issues back”. That issue was August 1974. In 1974-75 Fate was a monthly (see spreadsheet) so by this, the date would be late 1974 or early 1975. But Rose is very general about past dates and often underestimates the passage of time.

http://selfdefinition.org/norbu-chen/norbu-chen-fate-magazine-august-1974-full-article.htm

Closest thing on the list of missing tapes is 1975-1002-University-of-Pittsburgh-missing-tape

File 1

File 1 = length 31:23

To Frank: R. ... right, I don’t talk too loud ...

F. That will be good; that’s why I got the mic. It’s got a condensed mic, you can’t really hear it from up here, so on the floor ?? right here it’s great.

There’s one truth I haven’t discovered yet, and that’s about the common cold. So if any of you have it, [know it] why, let me know. Because of that lack of knowledge, I might not talk as long as I generally talk, in which case I’ll turn the meeting over pretty much to a dialog of sorts. I’ll answer questions, in other words.

My talk tonight has to do with the reasons for the so-called spiritual search. And I come up with the idea, or the conviction at least, that man is a race of liars. And a race of liars cannot find the truth, and the majority of these people will never find the truth. But those who are able to witness the errors and discrepancies and inconsistencies may somehow break away from that mass of people who are playing the game, and do something about it.

01:23

And you may not think this. We engage in this game and we agree to it. And there’s a tremendous mutual back-scratching that goes on: you tell your lie and I’ll tell my lie, and we won’t interfere with each other. Like the deal between the alienist and the judge: one gets a license and the other gets some support when he wants to send somebody to prison as being sane. But anyhow the doctor, we take the doctor: he sells us placebos. He claims de doesn’t, he has a certain good code that he operates by. But there’s more than one way to lie than being a liar [an outright liar] – you can neglect things. You can neglect to help people when you’re protesting that you do help them. You can keep your practice going. For instance a leg brace, a knee brace may cost you about fifteen dollars, and to take out a C cartilage might take six hundred dollars. So we find that they generally recommend the operation. Because two operations a day is better than one operations a day, especially when you’re getting five or six hundred dollars apiece. They don’t always tell the truth,

02:49

The dentists lie. They tell you they’re busy. These professional people make themselves hard to get. They’re very valuable, you must wait in line. I’ve been to the bother to check a few of them out, and they’re not very busy. They keep things going that way. The mechanic, he overhauls your car; he talks about getting them for the bundle. You drive in and if it’s a lady driving he may find that she needs a new battery when she really doesn’t, something of that sort.

So we’re going down through these just in case you think that all these, that everybody is, that there are just a few here and there. The man who builds our houses lies. he builds cracker boxes. And how does he do it? With the aid of lying inspectors, lying government agents, FHA people. And the government goes along with this. A lot of the merchandise that we get is a, has a short life. And the food we get is, the meat’s full of water. The druggist sells us pills that have a fractional value. Now I got this from a druggist myself. Check it out; you don’t have to take my word for it.

04:11

They give them a name, a very complex title, and by the time the Food and Drug Administration checks this stuff for the actual value in it and tells these people, “Now this thing is only worth two cents a pill, and you’re charging fifty cents a pill,” they change the name. And they add a few molecules o corn starch or something, and again the Food and Drug Administration has to start all over again and reexamine the pill and qualify [again] it for certain price.

04:38

So in the case of building and many of the, the merchandise that hits us today, that is highly advertized – and the lie is in the advertisement, that this thing is good. It isn’t good; it has a high turnover. And this is encouraged by the government because it gets taxes: every time a new item is sold there are more taxes for the government. So that obsolescence goes along with out system.

05:11

The newspapers lie. that’s our big, shining knight that’s supposed to save us from all these crooks. They lie by direct lie and by omission; if they don’t like you they omit the truth. And then that throws all the weight of the error – the people who are speaking, theoretically, or in mercenary fashion [?] – that puts them in a better light.

But our children see it. They see the judges being bribed, they see the millionaire politicians, and they see the politicians who are persecuting the other politicians as being also liars. They are also convicted. And they see that even the government – if you want to live in this country you almost have to be a liar to survive the ritual we call income taxes. Anybody who gets ahead is a liar. So the thing the children see right off the bat is that you have to be a liar, and you have to learn to lie adroitly.

And the poor honest man – we do not have a system where a man can go before a judge and say, “Yes, I committed something wrong, and I’m sorry. I wish I had more knowledge of what I was doing.” And the judge, very much like God Almighty says, “Well, I have no control of the law and you did this, and you’re going to jail for it. And you saved us a lot of money, thanks for saving us the money, for the trial, for pleading guilty.” But there’s no leeway in our society for, no advantage in our society for telling the truth. Everyone wants to be protected by some guild or trade union. This is not for the good of society, this is the right to extort.

07:08

Education is a lie. It’s a Frankenstein, besides being a lie. The people today, especially our young people, are burdened down under a tremendous weight of garbage classes, which the educators tell them they have to have. You can teach a mother, with a high school education, you can teach children in grade school up to the fourth year, but no, she’s got to go four years to college. They’ve got to go so long to college that, to teach anything, even in high school today you have to have a Master’s degree or PhD. And this protects. This is protecting the guild, that’s all. The result is that by the time you get, by the time you deny yourself normal living until you’re 30 years of age, you’re not fit to teach anybody. This is the – the larger percentage of people are disgusted, alcoholics or they’re burnt out dope addicts by the time they get to be a PhD. Or I’ve been looking at he wrong people. [?] This is all to fatten up the system, that’s become entity-conscious. It becomes an entity, and the entity has to feed itself. Like, don’t let too many people into the medical profession; keep them out and the prices up. Don’t let too many in the brick-laying profession, this sort of thing.

08:41

The people who are supposed to protect our justice are some of the biggest liars. We live daily in a jungle in a cave of jeopardy, and a lawyer, when he graduates and passes the bar examination, buys a franchise, for that system of protection. And we cannot protect ourselves except with his permission. We can’t even write up a legal document, unless we want to be arrested for impersonating a lawyer or something, without a license. And yet these are the same people whose money is made by virtue of being experts in tort. They would like to have us believe that, yes, they know the law, but if we give them enough money they can find the loopholes.

09:38

Now let’s go to religion. Either religion is a game, or ... [click? gap? on tape] ... they should teach more than just anything. [?] Belief alone is not sufficient. We’re talking about why kids deviate from the religions of their parents and that sort of thing. Bu you could look around you: we have a sort of paganism; we’ve thrown out the old icons and we’re worshipping glossy pictures now. Religion – of course some of them have gone into other phases of belief, transcendentalism they call it, esoteric philosophy; but it’s still a system of belief.

10:38

All of these things should have some function, or they’re lying. There’s some function that should be attributed to these movements. And what is that function.? To make youy feel better? To make your business better? – as you see in some of the little pamphlets some of them put out: “Better business”. Is that what we’re after? Or is there some basic question that the other scientists haven’t answered, that religion’s domain should answer? And I think you can narrow them down to three questions that cover it pretty well, and that is: Where did we come from? Who are we? And where are we going? It’s that simple. Where were we before we were born? Who are we now? ...

Q. Where will we be?

R. Thank you. [laughter]

11:34

Religion is a lie, by name-dropping: “God told me to tell you. I’m his emissary. I know the fellow personally, so ...” Or, “I know. My guru was a guru’s guru. [fix] And by that sticky chain we’re glued to heaven,” by some technique or another. By concept structures: A philosophy of concept structures, just saying, “This sounds good, paganism, if we rehash this paganism a bit, we’re going to come up with something that’s more palatable. So let’s try this, throw in some brotherhood now; this is going over pretty good.” By gimmickry: We lie with our gimmickry.

And some of these gimmicks – when I use the word gimmick that sounds like a crude word. But I overemphasize perhaps, because I want to attract attention to things I consider to be very vital. So I may use a harsh word. I consider healing to be a gimmick. I consider techniques that are meditative techniques that bring you peace of mind to be gimmicks. Techniques that are supposed to give you strength, an enormous amount of strength, where you can stick your fist through a steel door or something. I’m not saying that these don’t happen. You can heal. And we have the formulas in our group; there’s a paper written on it, how this is done, how the energy is raised to heal people.

As I mention in this line, you can pick up the Fate Magazine, it was a couple issues back, about a guy named Norbu Chen in Dallas, Texas. He went over to Tibet and paid the fellows a few hundred dollars and they taught him how to heal. Of course, they had to lock him up in a cave until he built up his energy so he could do it. So he came back to Dallas, and he calls it zapping. He looks and talks pretty much like a – at least the quotations I saw in the magazine – like a football player or something. He was, before he went over there he was a secret agent I think fort the Governor of Kentucky, doing some rather cloak and dagger work. And he had to hide out awhile because the people he put in the penitentiary – he went into the penitentiary and posed for the Governor to get information or something. So they wanted him.

14:00

But from there he went to Tibet and he learned this and came back, and now he’s zapping people, he calls it. And it works. He cures them. But the mistake is in tying it immediately – this man doesn’t tie it – he’s just a pragmatic healer. But another fellow comes along with the same technique, he learns a little trick, and he tells you God is on his? side. And then he has you building a church. And the average layman doesn’t have the time. He trusts. It’s like I went into a research laboratory when I was 23 years old; I was working on the atomic submarine. And I was really flattered to work among all these brilliant physicists and mathematicians. And I thought, ‘I’m going to talk to some of these people and see what they think about it. Because they’ve got good computers, these people have trained computers.” (I mean their heads.) “They should have some good answers about the problems of life and death.” So I – one by one, myself and another fellow went through: “What are you thinking, about the riddle of life or death? What do you think happens after you die?” They would be utterly amazed that I even asked the question. They had never thought of it. And finally one fellow said, “Hey. You know what I do? I pay the shoemaker to fix my shoes. I pay the preacher for that. he takes care f that.”

15:16

This is this exalted intellectual that we think knows everything, that we trust as authority. None of them. I didn’t find any of them – some of them had joined a few lofts? lodges? One of them was a 32nd degree Mason, another had joined a few cults to see what he could get out of it. But none of them had any desire, seemingly, to find out about who they were.

15:45

But anyhow, these gimmicks are coming out of India like steel comes out of Pittsburgh. They can’t export anything else but gimmicks. They don’t have too much production over there. So they study these things, and some of them are very valid. And a Frank says, I was initiated. I can’t go into all this stuff tonight. But I was initiated into some of these guru movements; one of them, Kirpal Singh was a schismatic, this group Eckankar was a schismatic of the same thing. And I went in for the purpose of picking up. “What do these people have that is so great? Why do people kneel at their feet?” and all that sort of thing.

16:29

Okay, we go on for [through] the reasons why the religions are – we can find that they’re lying to us. Is this protest of popularity? People go to the church that has the tallest steeple and the best parking lot and the nicest front. And people have this concept too: we have in our minds a disease called democracy. That we think that everything can be settled by it, these millions of ignorant people making a decision. Now I understand that both Cotton Mather and Burke, both of two polar parties, both came up with this realization that the common people can’t think; they can’t come up with anything worthwhile. You would think that if you get 200 million people you’d have a good answer, but it doesn’t seem to work that way.

17:30

But they think that all you have to do is vote. And this is exactly what’s causing all the hell in the country today, where people are voting on social issues and making edicts out of them – which are immoral and are destroying the fiber of our youth. By quoting – when they don’t have any theology, they quote. They quote a book or they quote an important person like Fosdick [?]

18:04

They use undefined terms. This rates a respectful attitude. Terminology. It’s like the doctor when he writes his prescription. It used to be in Latin. Everything was in Latin: this kept the peasants puzzled for a long time. But now we have words like satori. moksha, nirvana, nirvikalpa samadhi – sounds much better, it’s mystifying. And it’s much better to use the word nirvikalpa samadhi than it is enlightenment, because – well, that’s worth a little money even, maybe.

18:53

But we [the group?] use these invalidated [un-validated?] terms also, as the basis for a truth system. And some of the terms involved with philosophy – we automatically, by accepting the word, they? came in the book with the rest of stuff. So we accept them. And as the result of this we accept a whole philosophy without giving it much credit. [?]

Now I’m somewhat critical of course of people who will – we talk a bit of people abandoning Christianity for the Asian movements, and we’re wondering why. But the strange thing is, people have a level, and you’ll find that people who abandon say Christianity for being fictitious, or being emotional, or a devotional movement rather than a philosophical-thinking movement, will go across the sea and pick an identical movement up across the sea, [sentence] they will not pick up a philosophic movement there; they will pick up an emotional movement. If that’s their level, that’s where they’ll go. And they’ll just trade masters, that’s all, they will not raise themselves one iota. But they’ll have a different term for it: instead of “sin” they might use the word “karma”. Or something of that sort.

20:14

Religion has abandoned the search for the soul, or self-definition, and has entered politics. As a social service it wants to be funded. And it’s a manifest charade. Politics needs no help from the God-impostors; it has enough impostors. Religion also makes the observation that spiritual values are priceless: we should never put a price on them. But everywhere you go, you find that there is a price; they’re charging. Well, either bargain days are here, or we’re getting some counterfeit. Because there are a lot of religious leaders flying jet planes back and forth.

21:13 Here are a couple equations I’ll leave with you before I get into psychology:

Purgatorrial bail money is a gamble.

If you love your guru. love equals a jet plane and a palace.

God is a $10 million cathedral in the middle of the slums.

A holy man can be known for his wealth.

21:48

Now, we have two ways of going about this. If you’re serious and want to know who you are – of course, when I was young, I mean between 20 and 30, I didn’t see any point in living unless I knew who was living. Now that might sound not too heavy or too important, but to me that was important. And I know that to a lot of people it’s important. There are only two ways that we have open, two doors as I see it, open, to look for a definition of the self. And one of them is through religion or the associated things like esoteric philosophy, or religious philosophy. And the other is psychology. Psychology is a science of ..

[break in tape]

22:40

Well, of course, there’s a little bit of friction in these two fields. Because most of, well, not most, but quite a few of the eminent psychologists have denounced all religious effort as being a symptom of disease. They call this medical materialism. In other words, that people who are unsure of themselves or hysterical or have a liver defect or something will go in for religion. They’d like to have us believe that all these people are sick. But again this goes back to these [this] professional thing of wanting the whole field. At one time the psychologists considered hypnosis a fraud. And they said this doesn’t exist. And I know when I was going to college myself, people just laughed about it. ?? Some of the boys were learning to hypnotize and they said, “Oh, they’re playing tricks.” The psychology professor, “Oh, that’s just nonsense. They agree. They agree to get their mind in a certain frame and then they play tricks.” But once it was validated, then they wanted the property rights on it. They wanted to franchise, they wanted to make it a criminal offense for a person to practice it – and it is a criminal offense to practice hypnosis in some states unless you’re qualified first. Everything rests on the word qualified.

24:07

Psychology degenerated into a behavioral utility. In other words, it’s another back scratching deal. It’s not – because there’s no money in finding out who you are. You can’t build a psychological system in which people pay to find out who they are. But people will pay $50 an hour for some sort of comfort – or to get back in the game, get back in the rut, to become a diligent taxpayer. So everybody says, “Let’s have that type of psychology. Let’s have the type of psychology in which we can have an influence on our customers, if we’re salesmen, have an influence on our labor if we’re the personnel department.

But all of this is to learn how to twist wheels which we really don’t understand. We don’t understand what makes the wheels really turn in the first place.

This isn’t so bad in itself. Well, that’s a game, okay, the world’s full of games, that isn’t so bad. Where it gets bad is when these people go on a witness stand when a man’s life hangs in the balance, and define sanity, so that he goes to the electric chair or he goes free by virtue of some man who has never in his life yet defined sanity? No one has defined sanity. I defy anybody to come up with a – because when you define sanity you’re going to define the human mind; and all we know is about the effects of the human mind, not the human mind. We know what happens, we know the results of the human mind’s workings, but not the human mind.

25:59

So this is an imposition, this is the big lie. This is the great psychological crime. We don’t know what thought is. We’ve got a lot of words. And when you get into the dictionaries and that sort of thing, you find the words are largely circular. It gets back around to – a thought is what everybody agrees what a thought is; that’s what it gets down to. Psychology refuses to accept that man could possibly have an essence. Now when you’re in a chemistry experiment, you’re running something qualitatively, you don’t discount a priori anything that could be in there. You keep your mind open to anything that could be in that substance, when you’re examining it.

But this field says, “No.” This field says, “This is a hysterical idea people have, that they have a soul. It’s not seen, it’s imagined.” Or, “It’s just the personalities, the only thing that exists; that’s the sum total of that man’s wigglings.”

27:05

But they give out a heavy pretense, to establish themselves with the right to adjust our behavior.

But in its own – let’s say now, let’s say it’s a limited science then. Okay, it knows nothing about life and death, or thought, but it’s a behavioral expert. And like the doctors who can’t cure something but refuse to turn the patient away to another doctor for fear of losing the fee, they pretend to have an answer for everything. So that there are certain things that may not be properly defined, such as possession – it doesn’t exist to a psychologist; it’s defined as schizophrenia. It defines a tremendous lot of unexplained phenomena, which a mystic or transcendental experiment will run into, as individual or collective hysteria, or imagination Witchcraft, sorcery are denied. But if witchcraft is ever workable, believe me, they’ll want a charter on it. They’ll want to be the only operators.

28:27

Too many people refuse to admit their limitations. Not only the psychologists. He tries to apply to an objective study, no, not an objective study, an abstract study, or an intangible study – he tries to apply objective methods, laboratorial procedure. And of course with this, as long as he does this he’s going to come up short.

Most of it is done with letting the patient, incidentally – most of your therapy is letting the patient heal himself. And if you doubt this, well, ?? sitting in some encounter groups where there’s very little done except the man sits there with a pencil and takes notes and lets everyone hassle themselves. Now read William Seabrook book Asylum. He was an alcoholic, had himself committed to Bellevue. And he writes this book and tells what goes on and how people there were automatically, accidentally graded upwards until they were graded out the door. They were all more or less doing it on their own, or at least from the energy they put forth collectively.

29:47

Now – so – now we sit here and call a lot of people liars. And that should make us all feel good, you know, because we’ve seen a lot of liars, and we are not, presumably. Of course, I maintain that we are too. I believe we lie too, We don’t define ourselves. And when we ttempt to define ourselves we resort to a lie. If I ask somebody, “Who are you?” – and we do this occasionally in our confrontation; we’ll say, “Who are you?” – [laughs at something going on in room, unknown]

30:33

They say that this is one – Ramana Maharshi, this was the only thing that his pupils did, to continue to question themselves with that one question; that’s the only discipline that was necessary to find enlightenment, just repeat over to themselves, “Who am I?” until they start answering it, started looking for an answer. But the average person will say, “We have someone...” – where was it? In one of the meetings I asked somebody, and he says, “I’m me. I’m the fellow who hears you.” And – but are you the fellow who also sees, smells, tastes? Are you more than ears? And if you are, you may be plural. Or you may have ...

[break in tape] [file sn1 ends at 31:23]

File 2

File 2 = 14 minutes.

... or you may have – you know, apparently if it’s your hearing you’re going to be plural.”

“No, no, I’m the observer of these senses. I’m not ‘us’, I’m just the observer of these senses.” But we still say that we can observe this little action too. We can observe our bodies or our senses or our reactions, and we can observe the process. So that we witness a person with somatic feelings, seemingly a body that feels, an observer that feels, And immediately we have to admit some sort of duality within ourselves.

And – if you say, “Well... “ – again, the rationalization or the answer I picked him up [?] was, “Well, basically this body thing is just happening and I’m just watching it.” Now this is maybe something that Alan Watts would come up with.

Alright, so we’re the observer – but who acts? If this fellow’s a passive observer, just watching this, seeing, kind of letting everything flow and all that sort of thing – who’s the fellow who acts then? There’s something that acts. There’s something that decides. You can say a lot of these decisions are automatic. Maybe we just automatically choose a choice. [sentence] – many things we could do. [that] we don’t really have the choice; it happens automatically.

01:35

And I’ll say, “Who is it then that reacts?” ow, your answer to that will be, “Well, I don’t know, whether I really act or not. It could be that I act, it could be that I don’t act. It could be that I’m acted upon.” But still it goes back, that you’re manifestly two people. There’s evidently two things, two, there’s an observer observing himself, or there’s an observer and an actor.

02:10

Our reflexes may cause us to do something. We may think as a reflex when ?? strikes on one, as a reflex, but there’s going to be a qualification of that strike. No two people strike the same. you’ll be thinking, or inhibiting the strike; there will be a direction to it. It just won’t be a blind strike, necessarily.

So this shows that maybe we don’t want to hurt the fellow when we strike; it just means there’s a desire or a fear or something. And if there’s a desire, we can say that the desire is an act. The thing of being able to desire is being able to act – in a directed energy. We desire, and that’s a directed energy. But you can deny that you desire, too. You can say, “It’s a compulsion; I can’t help [but] desire.” But does not the witnessing of this compulsion automatically open a door for influencing the compulsion? No matter how you ?? And if you influence the compulsion, no matter how microscopically, it definitely happens your behavior – it’s an act.

03:25

We come down to the conclusion that at least we’re an observer. We observe feeling and acting. Complex and rapid decision making indicates that our actions are so infinitely complex, that if there is really an ultimate observer-actor, a combination of those, he or it is remotely alive, or remotely existent to this mundane “me” that feels, hears or questions, or answers the question “Who are you?”

04:00

Now, what I’m getting at is – go back into some of this stuff. When you see an action, try to identify the compulsion, try to identify the desire, try to see the qualification of the reflex or reaction, all this stuff. Observe yourself observing. And pretty soon you’ll realize that you ?? approach a state of possible reality that leaves that little function of jus hearing something way back in a mundane body.

04:34

The conclusion also reads that an ultimate, anterior actor, as well as observer must be accepted if we identify our ourself, if we’re going to identify ourself, the real Self, as being ultimate, and not the apparent physical self.

Now I’ll go through that again. The ultimate or anterior – that is, the farthest observer – which is us, which we identify as ourselves, must be accepted, if we identify our real self as that which is the most ultimate. In other words, if we say that that which is the final observer is us, then it’s got to be this thing that is not the physical self. In other words, the physical world did not cause itself, and develop an ultimate observer. The body did not create itself and then create an ultimate observer in that body, or related to that body.

05:44

And if this ultimate self is more real, by virtue of the fact that he’s watching – in other words, he’s just not the hearing or the seeing, he’s the observer of both hearing and seeing whenever they occur. So his comprehension, or his ability to take this in makes him more complete, than just the function of hearing. So that one of the little egos is not necessarily the great person, or the whole person, but just a small fragment of the person or the observer.

06:14

But when we realize this – how the final observer, which is awareness, is more real – then mundane acts and facts have less meaning. And we identify the other experience or facts as being capital-r Reality.

No we’ll go back to the individual again. We say, “Who are you?” Are you honest enough to say who you think you are? I don’t believe that people can generally say even who they think they are. They may try. But I am quite sure that everybody sitting here tonight thinks that sane? same? saying? – that they’re very average, intelligent, and they do everything properly. But let’s run through the crowd and see why you do certain things. Now I don’t know what you do. Most of you I haven’t seen before. But I see people with long hair and I say, “Why do you grow your hair long?” I see a man who shaves, I say, “Why do you shave?” I see a girl who wears a particular type of dress because it emphasizes a certain physical feature, and say, “Why do you wear your dress that way?”

And it’s very possible that the colors you pick, the way you hold your head, the way you walk, the tone of voice you assume – all is an attempt to convey, or create before you convey, an image. Perhaps some shade of he rooster or some shade of the princess, so that we can project this on humanity and make them accept it.”I’ll look much better with whiskers because my chin is small.” Or, “My head is too fat so I’ll fix my hair this way.” but we want people to believe that we are something, so that we can move with greater facility through the jungle of humanity. This is a lie.

08:31

And this business of finding yourself – when we talk about finding yourself – I spent a lot of time tonight talking about the professional liars. And this is not nearly as significant. These people may have to do, they may be programmed to fight in the jungle and survive with a few lies, and this is microscopic in comparison to a person who claims heir intelligent but kids themselves. Who goes through – it takes him twenty years before – someone walks up to him some day and says, “Hey, you think you’re so-and-so, don’t you?” And you’ve thought yourselves that, but you’re not, you’re just a pile of garbage, basically.

09:16

So this is what we’re about. And this is where we have to start. We can’t start with complex terminology and take, analyze God and philosophic wrestlings with words, or postulate something like enlightenment, and then try to guess. Or build a concept structure and compare it with a hundred or a thousand other concept structures and say, “We’ll find wisdom about ourself from talking or reading about these people who are supposedly experts on the subject.”

There is a simple, direct way, a very easy way that costs you nothing. And that’s look in the mirror. And start asking yourself, “Who am I and why am I putting up this particular front?” And when you start to looking, you’ll see behind the way your hair grows or the way you part it, that you’re posing. you’re trying to project. You’re not trying to learn the truth, you’re trying to project a certain image on the rest of humanity. And you’re not going to find truth until you face yourself. That’s the old adage: First know thyself. It begins with your shoes, it doesn’t begin with some glorious picture you have about yourself.

10:35

So basically, we must recognize these other things. I consider it abhorrent? a man shouldn’t get into things about political chicanery. that’s not our province. But at the same time we can’t turn our head and say everything’s sweet and nice, and Pollyanna will rule in the millennium. We’ve got to somehow, we’ve got to live with it and ignore it, but at the same time we have got to recognize it. And if we turn our back on it and say it isn’t there, then we will induce our mind to run away from other problems when they arrive. We’ve got to be able, we’ve got to be skillful and intuitive in recognizing error or inconsistency, let’s say, wherever we see it.

11:18

And of course, we can be mistaken too. We can make mistakes. but as you go along you correct that.

11:30

That’s it. So I would like for you to ask any questions you’d like, and we’ll continue. I find that part of our – yes ...

11:48

Q. the question I have ?? ?? I know that as we get older our energy ?? down ?? less difficult to handle emotionally ?? ?? in our minds. But I was wondering if you had any suggestions to people that might help them in – not necessarily solving the difficulties or the particular problems they face in their life. But if controlling the confusion and the painful, to use a humorous word, the discombobulation, so ?? of mental life, regardless of what a person may be saying to himself, that’s occurring. I think that, this is a, do you have any suggestions of that sort, that might be helpful?

13:00

R. Well, first of all, generally the more trouble you have, the better off you are. I mean basically, invention is caused by adversity, so that the more adversity you have – now, there’s one other thing that I, to give the thing an honest answer, is that there can be mental confusion caused by things that are adverse but will not bring you any wisdom even. And this I would refer to as being external.

13:36

Q. Can you give examples? ??

R. Well, the little boy who was exorcised, he had mental trouble and he couldn’t cure himself. So ordinarily, let’s say, if you have a social problem, in other words, you can’t get along with people or something of that sort, you can continue to wrestle with it until you find the answer and become adjustable. Or you can ...

[end of recording – sn2 ends at 14:01]

Footnotes

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 Meniscus.
 Rose, in 1977-1004-Psychology-of-Zen-Science-of-Knowing: “I don’t believe that people commit crimes as much as people are the victims of the crime they commit.”
 Energy Transmutation, Between-ness and Transmission, 1975
 http://selfdefinition.org/norbu-chen/norbu-chen-fate-magazine-august-1974-full-article.htm 
 Actually this is Rose’s term. It does not appear in the Fate article.
 Alternatively a confidential informant in prison, depending of the source of information.
 At $500 per treatment (1974 dollars). But he said it put a tremendous strain on him. And he died within about 3 years of the article.
 Babcock & Wilcox subsidiary plant near Alliance, Ohio.
 Robert Martin. 
 Radha Soami.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_Mather 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke 
 http://selfdefinition.org/psychology/james-medical-materialism.htm 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Seabrook

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