1979-1128-Values-Ohio-State-University

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Title	1979-1128-Values-Ohio-State-University
Recorded date
Location	Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio
Number of tapes	J's version 2 @ 60 -- same for DM
Other recorders audible?	No
Alternate versions exist?
Source	J -- also DM
No. of MP3 files	four: 27 min, 31 min, 29 min, 24 min
Total time	1 hour 51 minutes
Transcription status	SH started Dec 31, 2012
Link to distribution copy	http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ (need password)
Link to PDF	http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ Or try http://selfdefinition.org/rose/
Published in what book?	no
Published on which website?	no
Remarks
Audio quality
Identifiable voices
URL at direct-mind.org	https://www.direct-mind.org/index.php/1979-1128-Values-Ohio-State-University
	For access to this wiki or the audio files please send an email to: editors@direct-mind.org
Revision timestamp	20150213140951

Notes

Jaqua collection – Four 30 minute tapes

Also Dave Mettle collection.

MF version add 2 ½ min at start.

MF version addendum

[has 3 minutes extra (formerly missing) at beginning.]

00:00

… complaints. Constitute, I tried to get a cross section of complaints, the things that people generally complain about when they enter an encounter group, sometimes when they come to a psychiatrist. This is their, unless there’s something extreme, of course that’s, maybe they’re out of control or something of that sort. But let’s say we’re dealing with a more peripheral or shallow type of complaint, where it isn’t something serious to commit suicide over or something of that sort. But it might lead to that.

00:40

Sometimes this is what people leave behind in notes, as complaints, when they commit suicide. “I wasn’t loved.” “The stock market collapsed.” Which means, “I don’t have the proper economic contacts or opportunities.”

And just as a means of examining how we treat this – can you hear me back there [so at start of lecture] – ow does our psychological system treat this? I think it changes it every generation, or every hundred years at least. you see a pronounced change maybe every 30 or 40 years. But this is what I encounter now. And if you find anything that you might want to add, put up your hand and throw it in.

01:37

The reaction to this, if you go in to a therapist today, there’s a current set of reactions to this patient or inquirer or complainer. And the one is that the sufferer is to blame. For instance, that was in one of the complaints, that the person will actually get this guilt complex, that they are the cause of all the things that go wrong with them. They virtually put themselves up as God, that they’re creating the events of their life. And there are also positive systems of thinking that would life for us to believe this.

02:28

[now switch to MJ times]

File 1

Total time: 27:09

00:00 [starts mid-sentence] ... systems of thinking that would like for us to believe this. That we, perhaps by just thinking in a positive manner that we’re going to change all the events to the way we want it. People who – there are religious systems, or chanting systems that believe you can get anything you want by chanting. And if this were true, then, this means that there would be a factor for changing the machinery, the cosmic or planetary machinery.

00:31

Okay, the next one is that the individual needs to be reprogrammed or reconditioned. And this is predominantly Skinnerian, in my estimation. Skinnerian behaviorism. That if he’s doing something, if he’s too unhappy, if he’s got too much of a complaint, he’s out of tune, and you’ve got to condition him to proper social attunement.

And of course there’s another one, that the parents are to blame.

I noticed this; one of my convictions is – this is on the side [?] I can’t prove it, it’s still my conviction – that possibly out psychiatric-psychological system produces its own patients. But yet they point in all directions.

01:22

The reason I say they create their own patients is because these systems today are encouraging “experiential” living, which could be like lighting a match to an explosive keg. And then when the keg goes off you wobble into the psychiatrist and he says, “Well, that was nothing but experience; don’t worry about it.” [but] You’ve only got half a head. Your mental faculties are impaired by the experience.

01:58

Then so somebody has to be blamed. That every professional has to somehow project the difficulty in another direction, if he can’t cure it.

Now when you get back to it, why are – I’ve been checking [?] a lot of books on these encounter groups and I find out that at first they were pretty much started by freelancers.

Aside – Can you through the second batch? Then when you get through, I want to count – just those four, the number of yes’es and the number of no’s, and the two different pickups.

02:49

I forgot what I was talking about.

Q. The encounter groups.

R. Yes. The encounter groups were started as a result of an inability of your clinical psychiatrist to solve the cases. In other words, the clinical psychologist ? ? ?? his doctrine are rejected today, or at least partially rejected. And what happened – the public started to cure themselves, by getting together and various little non-professional supervision. [sentence]

And it’s my opinion then that these encounter groups were ultimately taken over by – well, there’s an outfit on the west coast, I think they called it, what was it, the Technical Group or Tactical Group? possibly T-group , ] They brought in a whole bunch of individual systems, took them into Stanford University, and oversaw the results.

04:08

Now they used every encounter system they could get ahold of – I have some notes here on that – the Marathon encounter, Fritz Perls, Gestalt, Harris’ system, I’m OK, you’re OK. They took all these and observed the way the groups worked. And there was a book written about it by several professors at Stanford, and they came up with the conclusion that although they were run by, or supervised by capable personnel, they were more or less not infallible; they were subject to questionable results.

I think of course that one of the reasons is that the therapist lays down a limited number of things that could be wrong. And I think that there is [are] more than that limited number. I think this is where the difference lies.

05:14

Getting back to these things of the systems, the blame is placed sometimes on a segment of society. This is a whipping boy – that this party is, he’s got a psychosis because he grew up in the wrong part of town, or he was born of the wrong race, and therefore the rest of society persecuted him and consequently he’s not to blame. Or she, being a woman, is not to blame; because she was born a woman and men created her as she is. So this is a passing the buck from the person themselves to society.

06:00

And of course the last one is that the psychiatrist or therapist says nothing, and just takes it as an accident, like a surgeon says, “Here’s a person’s got injured and we got to do what we can to heal them, and we’re not going to guess at who’s to blame or what the cause of it is.

06:20

And again as I say, if there’s any other attitudes, well, you can let me know. But I, the thing I come up with is, there’s a tremendous big factor in the human family, besides this little circle of parents, neighbors, events, geographic location. And that is that’s it very possible that many of us have an individual destiny.

06:57

This is the feeling that I’ve had for quite some time. That – I’ve heard stories of, well, to give you an example, a person went through a certain thing because they had to purged by some way of a misconception they had. have? Where do they get the misconception? Well, it may have been genetic. It may have been acquired.

There’s another school of thought that says, “Well, it was karma.” It goes clear back – as I said, why not get to the grandparents. Or, did this guy do something before?

Now, to the scientist this may seem [to be] reaching way out, to be illogical. But – the only thing I’m trying to point out is: How can we get away with thinking that nobody else is here but us? That we created this thing, we starved/started? this thing called society, and if we are capable of managing and manipulating every little cog in the machinery, as though nothing else is here but people, and [that] people created people. Just because we can’t see the start. And I’m not saying there is anything here but people – but isn’t it possible, something started somewhere, and that there was an architectural design?

08:25

And if this is true, why isn’t this fellow blamed, this architect? Why isn’t there some blame put in that direction? And if you start to put the blame in that direction, won’t that give us a new insight into possibly things that happened to us? Instead of blaming the neighbor, we wait maybe four or five months and find out that the adversity that hit us somehow was for our own good.

08:50

Now I read a, I read various books on psychology – I have a hard time reading them because I get rather upset, when I start to read them, because of their terminology, the loose way they handle such things as the mind. I read one place where the fellow said the mind is the collective response to the environment. In other words, he didn’t know what the mind was, so the best thing is not saying too much. So it’s just what’s [whatever is] reacting to the environment

09:25

possible source – marathon groups: http://yalom.com/tapencountercontent.html

I read a definition of reality in this same, i think it was the same book that they had the case histories of the encounter [groups] in them. And this psychiatrist says, “We can accept reality – as that which proves itself pleasant in the long run.”

09:46

In other words a state [?] – supposing it’s pot as opposed to booze. Booze can prove itself pleasant in the immediate future, but unpleasant in the long term, looking at the liver and the effect on the arteries, the blood pressure, etc. But pot may not have the same long-range unpleasantness. I think you can apply that to a lot of other things, such as sex habits. But they’re all defined as the writer or the author sees fit.

But the main thing is that this is not reality. Do we ever think about reality? What is reality? My estimation is that we’re avoiding, possibly, the greatest set of values – you talk about values [the title of the talk] – and we are equating ourselves with sheep and goats – at the same time demanding that those sheep and goats assume responsibility.

10:57

In other words [that] we are flesh bodies, our mind is a collective reaction to that flesh body, and there is no spirit, nothing inside. And again, I’m not preaching; I’m not saying that I’m advising some doctrine. I’m saying, how can we afford, under this brave new thinking process, to dump out ten thousand years of previous psychiatric practice? Ten thousand years, and we redefine the words and redefine the terms – and fail miserably. Because that’s exactly what we’re doing. We’re failing miserable.

11:40

Aside: Have you finished that up? [gathering questionnaires] I don’t know what’s going to become of this, it’s just a shot in the dark with this, but this has basically to do with a concept [advise?] and seeing if a person can remember them from one paper to another, and also [if he will] change his mind from one paper to another. I have [?] them ready. That take care of that. Tore it [?] [laughter]

Hi. Good to see you.

12:07

looking at papers

12:24

Q. You complain about the definition of mind; would you give us a better one?

R. Well, yes. I think I could. See, I’m a dualist. Now I’m not asking you to agree with me. I believe there’s a body, and another. And I believe that this “other” is also – it inhabits and reaches into, if you want to call it that, another dimension. This is another mistake that I think we make: we think that there are no other dimensions – except those that Flash Gordon has penetrated, or might penetrate.

13:08

but I believe that the mind is our contact with the mind dimension. Now I have pretty strong reasons for making that statement. But as far as proving it, that might be something else. But I maintain of course that this too is the immortal aspect of man. In other words, it survives in the form of awareness. I don’t like to state that every synapses survives the decay at death, but I’m quite sure that there’s an awareness that does. And I equate this with the ability of the mind.

13:54

Q. Would this be the soul of the person?

R. Well, yes. I think of course that, when you get back to the Greek idea of the soul, and let’s say the Zen idea of the soul, they are two different things. There’s such a thing as we’ve encountered in occult investigation, an astral body, and there are quite a few people today who – well, as opposed to say thirty years ago – who are taking interest in it, and who even profess to be able to travel this way, where they’ve checked each other, where somebody would do something to prove he had travelled astrally. There was a book written on it by Robert Monroe.

14:65

Monroe was a successful businessman and had no profit in writing the book. I don’t think he made any money off of it anyhow; not many people read that sort of material. But he was a fairly wealthy man, who had this ability. So he decided to sit down and tell about it. And Herewood Carrington and Sylvan Muldoon also wrote books on astral projection.

15:10

Now this is what I think the Greeks referred to as the soul. When you get into theology and esoteric philosophy there’s quite a clutter of definitions. For instance, the spirit and the soul are not the same [?? ???] a spiritualist, for instance, considered there’s an astral [world?] and then there’s a higher spiritual world, and that sort of thing.

15:38

But I don’t care to identify them. I’m just saying that the idea of a soul means a replica. My idea is that, I see no need for a replica, or a ghost, identical to the person. This may exist. In fact, in present Greek tradition – I talked to a fellow who just came over from Greece. His father died. And I said, “Why didn’t you try to get back home?” And he said, “He’ll come to me. He’ll travel the earth for two years.” And that’s the soul that would cease to exist, and that he would enter into another experience, or something of that sort.

16:23

But if you want to get some additional literature on this, get the Tibetan Book of the Dead. The Tibetans for centuries believed that the soul after death found itself in a similar vehicle, believing that it was in a human body. And this was the equivalent of the Christian purgatory that you hear about, where they refuse to give up the idea that they were dead, so to speak. So they held onto this form, believing in it. And it [this] caused another hell, similar to this one.

And the transcendence of that, of course, was finding an unparticularized, undifferentiated form, and keeping the mind still active – meaning awareness, not the memory mind or let’s say the philosophical or thinking-cogitating mind, but still a tremendous awareness.

17:29

So these are the different grades. And incidentally, I don’t think – we talk about the human mind – and I don’t think that everyone has the same type of mind. Some of us, they would like to pin everybody down as just being reactive people. And I think this is very true, that the majority of people are just reactive people. They are just you might say responding to stimuli. I maintain that you don’t have to be stuck in that groove. That we can reach our awareness.

18:05

And again, the proof of that is not in me saying it. The proof is in getting there behind it, and then looking back on what you’ve achieved. In other words, there’s no sense in saying you’re going someplace after death. This is foolishness. You have to make the trip. Then you get a better perspective of what the mind is, after death.

18:27

And I think of course, again, you take the cases of Kübler-Ross and Raymond Moody They wrote case histories of life after life, or life after death. These, if you want to take them, almost 99 percent of them are all cases of people who had never transcended the form-type of immortality.

18:55

Now those aren’t the only cases on record. In Readers Digest, I think it was October 1974, there was a case of a man who dropped dead of a heart attack.

http://tatfoundation.org/forum2003-12.htm#5

He was in an automobile, I think, and it took them awhile to get the emergency car there, something like two hours elapsed, he was pronounced dead, and he came back, he regained his consciousness. Which seems to be miraculous, because supposedly the brain cells are gone in that period of time.

19:32

The account that he gave was an entirely different account. He was aware. He was aware of something like a dimensionless dimension. And I was so impressed by this account that – I was writing to a fellow who was undergoing heart surgery, he’s about fifty years of age. And he said, “This might be it. What would you advise? What do you think would happen to me if I died?” And I sent him the clipping. I felt if that happened, that would be the best thing for him, not to come back here working in the mill again. That it would be a more valid experience

20:22

This experience, if you compare this, medical experience that he gave – this man was not a religious person, he was somewhat amazed by it, because he didn’t expect anything but oblivion. This compares identically with accounts that come out of the East, in regards to what they call sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi. This is the total experience.

20:52

So I look at this from this perspective, and then I look at it from this very limited slave? conscious attitude on the human mind. And I maintain that this may be the reason that we are failing in a lot of our diagnoses. Because we’re playing God. Maybe they think that’s very valid because they’ll never get caught, since there’s no God to catch them.

21:22

It [??] up ..

Q. Yes, this is the second group [discussion]

R. [looks at papers]

21:46

Q. What is the purpose? Oh, you [wouldn’t?] tell me that? [laughs] I knew I did something wrong.

[discussion of papers]

22:18

Q. ?? ?? spiritual aspirations are at odds with modern technology. ??

22:39

R. I believe that modern technology, the main function of it is, to prove spiritual concepts. This is the relation. Long after a spiritual concept comes in, let’s say, or a subjective philosophical comes in, it’s almost fifty or a hundred years before the thing is validated by our scientific field.

23:09

Seemingly – well, to give you such things as hypnosis, magnetism. there’s very little known yet about magnetism. There’s very little known about hypnosis. The majority of people refuse yet to believe in a lot of the phenomena that occur. There seems to be enough evidence that you can examine? to give you an example? of flying saucers. That some of the accounts must mean something besides shooting stars or illusions. Now I don’t pretend to know what they are. It seems hard for me to believe that everybody’s lying, especially all over the world, that everybody’ lying. So consequently, science refuses to accept this, absolutely; I mean the people in charge of that branch of science, which would be our military science. They just say it’s impossible. Hypnosis at one time was considered a fraud and a game – or the work of the devil. That was when the church was in charge of science. It was just written off.

24:13

And again, I think now that ultimately, our expansion of knowledge of DNA molecules – for instance Jung came up years ago with this idea or archetypal memories. Since then, biology has come up with the idea of the DNA memory – besides the genetic memory [?] – that you’ve got a molecular memory.

24:41

So that which comes by inspiration – it waits awhile for validation from objective science. And I think a lot of stuff can be – this is [a] subjective field – a lot of stuff. And again, there may be an inductive thinking that would lead us to the concept that there are forces beyond – I read a book one time, a man tried to demonstrate this – that there must a force beyond the human being. and then mere? mirror? a business of getting a ketone enzyme lined up with another ketone enzyme in the sludge along the shore, in the early day of the planet’s birth, creation, that would cause life to exist. The monumental statistics of a happening, of a protoplasmic enzyme forming by accident, and from that the whole scheme of life following is harder for me to take than the idea that there was an architect or architects.

25:44

So I think that science sometimes can be in its negation as preposterous, or moreso, than the people who say, “Hey, the leader of our religion created this thing.” This is invisible too; we can’t validate it. I think the opposite is equally ignorant, where we say, “Hey, we’re in charge.” It’s like this idea of trying to regiment people, or program everyone – as Skinner would say, like you’re taming the lions.

26:23

[But] who’s going to do the programming? Who’s going to have the guts to get up there and say that he is going to create the modes of living for the rest of humanity? And of course that’s what’s going on today: people are definitely trying that. And not only are they getting away with it, they’re wanting to be funded.

[MF tape breaks here – at 28:08 his time] 26:53

Q. inaudible

Yeah, okay. See, what I brought out here, I took those two, four questions: Number 2 is “I want to be loved.” Number 6 is what was it? number 6 is “I have no peace of mind.” [ No break in tape ]

[File 1 ends at 27:09]

File 2

Total time 30:38

00:00

Number 6 is, “I have no peace of mind. Number 18 i, “I’m the cause of my own unhappiness,” and number 19 is, “My parents caused my unhappiness.”

Okay, number 2 in the first run, twenty-five people agreed with number 2. Twelve agreed with number 6, twenty-six with number 18, and six with number 19.

00:47

When the papers were re-run, you have a change of twenty-even, an increase of two, which doesn’t mean anything because it stayed about the same, because that looks like two more people – we got two more papers the second time. We got thirteen for number 6, but on number 18 we went from twenty-six to eighteen.

01:22

And on 19 we went from nine down to two. So it looks like the ame number of papers may have been there, and some of those shifted over.

So what I’m getting at is, in the pace of what, ten, fifteen minutes? We changed our values. That this is possible for a person upon examining himself. With no, there’s no pressure here, nobody knows anybody’s name, nobody knows their problems.

01:59

The question and number, the two critical ones were numbers 18 and 19. “I’m the cause of my own unhappiness.” Now I think the response may have been possibly to the confrontation of, “Are you God?” Maybe somebody stopped and thought. That simple question can alter an encounter group. The attitude in [an] encounter group. Then there is some hope for the reappraisal of values by a certain type of encounter. I’m not saying that you can heal. I’m not saying that. I’m just aying that I think a tremendous lot of the misery that occurs in society today is caused by false values – improperly explored values that we hold with great conviction.

02:51

And if they are momentarioly explored, why, there’ll be, what would happen say if there were more than say one word thrown out.

03:09

System

And I think that the, there is a system that you can get into that starts with this. I don’t think that anything you get into should start by trying to objectify – and of course first of all I do believe that you, if there is a posible physical relationship, if a person has an inferiority complex because of some physical impairment, that’s something else, ?? ?? cause, probably an insurmountable, not necessarily insurmountable, but a justifiable cause, a complaint.

03:54

But I think that the, one of the things that’s missing in a lot of our encounters is the lack, or the absence of an ability for direct-mind communication. (And if you don’t know what I mean, you’re going to have to ask me.) I believe that the, as I aid, if you want to judge your fellow-man, walk a mile in his moccasins. And if the therapist can’t do this, he should get out. You can’t sit there with a pencil. We did it here [tonight, ] just for the purpose of statistics, but not to tell what that person’s trouble is.

04:35

You can only do that by knowing that peron. And of course if you’re getting fifty dollars an hour, and you’re not going to pend any more than that hour, you may not find out anything. Because it might take a little longer than that. Or it might take, if you have the ability, just a few moments to ?? correct appraisal.

04:56

But we are trying to do everything, we are trying to push objective buttons, instead of having a compassionate attitude, compassionate to the point of feeling the person’s pain. Now I call this rapport. I say that people, a therapist has to have, a necessary rapport. Or you don’t have to be a therapist. It could be, possibly the best therapist is some old lady on a farm. Why? Because she’s not got the cares. The therapist has made himself a few thousand, and now he’s playing the ticker tape in the back room. So he has to rush back there and keep up with Wall Street and see what’s happening. See if he can get his wife to go to the psychiatrist, because she has to live with him. So he has a lot on his mind too.

06:00

And the little old lady on the farm, who doesn’t do anything but take care of the cows or something of that sort, and think about other people, seems to have a lot more wisdom abut those people. And that’s what I’m talking about, with 10,000 year of previou pychiatry, where people knew. They jut knew.

06:22

But today we have to objectify everything, and we are drowning. The student of pychology today in being drowned in uch a welter of newly created and twisted word, such a reality, psyche, mind, where there is absolutely no hope for your mind of ever challenging those book. You’re never going to be able to take those books and ay, “Is this true or false?” You’re going to memorize them – to pas the test, and enter into the general maintream of another group of impostors, taking your nickels from the working man, or whomever can afford it.

07:05

So I believe that there are systems, there are methods, of abruptly [?] helping people, once you know. I’m not talking chemotherapy – if this is necessary, I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about thee cases where people are troubled. But it may lead to something that gets into chemotheapy. And I’m not talking about something where there’s brain impairment, or weher there’s a physical trauma. I’m just talking about this business of giving advice. Or sometimes not even giving advice. [?]

07:38

Sometimes advice isn’t even given. It’s just data – endless data is taken, and sometimes the person is blamed. [?]

07:47

Now, again, I’ll go a little step further: I know of cases where criminal pressure was brought against people, im order to intimidate and show the power; the psychiatrist has the power to pick up the phone and put you in jail – they do it. And this is an awesome power for somebody [to have] whop doesn’t know what they’re doing. He doesn’t even know the mind they’re [he’s] talking to.

08:15

So what are we goint to do with these people, that do this? Oh, we’re going to cure ourselves. We can’t do anything for them. We’re going to have to find some way of curing ourselves.

08:26

pause

08:37

I think with a little trouble peiople can get ... 08:42 [gap in tape – maybe 45 min cut to 30 min]

08:54

There’s a book called Dianetics by Ron Hubbard, and it started out with a hing called “auditing”. I thought it was a good little system, one of the forerunners of the heavy encounters. And auditing only required two people; one person sat down with a pencil and the other person sat there and repeated a word. And he took the word and repeated it rapidly without thinking – you’re not supposed to think – until another word popped into your head. Then you’re supposed to repeat that wordd at a certain given pace, so that you wouldn’t be planning what word you were going to say next, until something would pop into your head.

09:31

Ultimately this would take you back in your life to a point in your life in which trauma occurred, which had caused a shift – and a future misery for you. And once this thing occurred, once this thing was recognized, something would happen which he called “clearing” – that you became clear.

09:46

Now this is comprehendable because I think all of you have had these experiences where – you might have been angry with somebody for years. And all at one day [?] it dawned on you that you were the one that was to [blame? ] – something you had said may have keyed in the whole event that caused the trouble.

10:08

And there’s a let down. If you’re anger [angry] there’s a realization that you were all wet, and a new start for you almost begins. Your perspective broadens, your tolerance of other people broadens by this recognition.

10:22

Now I think we’ve all had this. And this was something, just a technique to bring it about. And I thought this was good. This was good. What’s wrong with two people sitting down. He wrote a book, and take the book and follow it. [sentence]

So a lady in Stubenville, Ohio said to me, “Do you know what I can do? I cn’t afford to travel, I don’t know anyone I could get together and have an encounter with, to shake their heads up. What would you advise?” And I said, “Why don’t you try this auditing? Get yourself a friend. Be careful what you put don because, you know, this might be some personal material you’ll blurt out.

11:01

So she got herself a friend and she started auditing, and she became fascinated by it. And then I got a post card, “I’m on my way to Los Angeles to take the $7,000 course. [year unknown] Before her – first, her husband, he thought that was wonderful. He thought she was going out there – he had been fighting her for thirty years or so. And this was like leeching, leeches in there, leeching so much blood you’ll feel better. ?? ?? You’ve got to settle down and start to work then. You can’t, you just, roaming around all over the earth just playing games. [?]

11:42

But I could see what happened. This same thing then was expanded then into a whole system – of visualization; where you could visualize anything you wanted. It was almost like, “What do you want? Name it. Okay, picture it in the corner of the room – there it is. Believe it.” You know: “Do you want a soul? Okay, step behind yourself, observe yourselv, now you can see your soul,” Things like that. It covered every range of human desire, practically. And it got very expensive.

12:18

pause

12:29

I think of course that there’s another thing too: I don’t want to get into it too deeply, but there are pronounced disturbances – that are not caused by normally, normal accidents or the average things that happen in a person’s daily life. And these are on the increase. And – I’mnot a professional man, don’t get me wrong – but I have – a tremendous lot of people are coming to me recently, telling me flatly that they are possessed – and can they be helped?

13:11

his is only in the last four or five years, that I’ve even heard people talking about this, much less anybody admit it. But there are increasing numbers of people. I’ve given lectures and people walk up to me after the lectures and say, “Hey, you’ve got to help me.” In Cleveland, a fellow was willing to hit me in the head with a hammer so that I wouldn’t leave before he could get helped, before I could help him – just because I touched on a [the] subject.

13:40

This is another thing that psychiatry chooses to ignore rather than treat. Don’t get me wrong – it’s treated. It’s treated. I have a little thing I brought along here. To give you an example of how it is treated, on the cover of a recent Newsweek – there’s a picture with the e top of a head sawed off, and the therapist dropping pills into the various compartments where they’re needed. 14:11

Okay, so this is our brave new science. But what’s the allergy rate? What are the allergies to this? In other words, after a guy is cooked so long on downers, does he need another psychiatrist? How can they balance these chemicals so he’s going to have the uppers at the right moment – and he doesn’t go into social uselessness?

14:43

There’s a number of things that I think are also, that people can do to help themselves if they want to – it doesn’t cost a lot – and that is journal writing, which seems to be good. I’m not saying that this is going to cure it; I’m just saying that these are things that might help straighten out the little troubles you might have. I don’t know if you’re acquainted with it – you can get it – Ira Progoff is the person who writes about it, the Intensive Journal Method. He’s a disciple of Jung’s.

15:18

And dream analysis; sometimes – I’m not saying that the thing’s in the dream even. But nevertheless, the observance of your own behavior under different circumstances will help give you an insight perhaps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VML0EhoG4MA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JhnTkEe-0I

File 3

Total Time 29:22

File 4

Total time 23:46

Sin …

Insurance salesman goes on a rant about morality.

18:00

We know we can be wiped out at any time but continue to crawl like lemmings.

Vegetarianism – you’d need a vast effort for it to be economical.

20:00

Q. … separation from divine self …

Idea of sin creates an inferiority complex.

This business of logical proof – matters of the heart.

Necessary to develop intuition.

Well. I guess pretty soon

If any of you wish to leave your name

interested in coming down to the farm.

Art wraps it up.

Side 4 ends at 23:09 – dm tape

Footnotes

End