1987-0607-Chautauqua-WV

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Title	1987-0607-Chautauqua-WV
Recorded date	June 7, 1987
Location	Farm
Number of tapes	unknown - probably 1 cassette, 90 minutes
Other recorders audible?	No
Alternate versions exist?	Hopefully, need to survey
Source	A. Monge
No. of MP3 files	2 files, first is 49 min, second is only 15 minutes and tape is jamming
Total time
Transcription status	Side 1 first 7 minutes = 1st pass. Then notes
Link to distribution copy	http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ (need password)
Link to PDF	http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ Or try http://selfdefinition.org/rose/
Published in what book?
Published on which website?
Remarks
Audio quality
Identifiable voices
URL at direct-mind.org	https://www.direct-mind.org/index.php/1987-0607-Chautauqua-WV
	For access to this wiki or the audio files please send an email to: editors@direct-mind.org
Revision timestamp	20240506101043

 Version  xx/XX/ 2015 

Richard Rose June Chautauqua at Farm June 7, 1987 stop side 1 min 7, page 5

Notes

From Augie Monge May 12, 2012 – file 1 is okay. File 2 is bad, probably cassette broken. But if it’s side 1 and side 2 of the cassette, why did side 1 record ok and side 2 not?

Check with EG for a better tape.

Lots of birds singing so it must be in the Chautauqua building.

Email and files from Augie Monge 5/15/2012 I'll send the audio files from my aborted attempt to digitize the 1987 tapes. Augie File names are June-1987_Chataqua_Side-1.mp3 June-1987_Chataqua_Side-2_Garbled.mp3

talks about the community building and “the wing where w had lunch” << so this is the Chautauqua building. Lots of birds singing

File 1

total time 49:04

00:00

... seen this woman carrying these satchels. And I say to Art, “She looks like she’s suffering, lugging those big satchels, so let’s stop and pick her up.” We put stocks? [thought] from behind, the shape and everything and the posture that it was female, but it was a man. So we stopped and said, “Where are you going?” “Um, wherever you’re going.” “North?” “Yes, that’s alright.” “Going outside of Florida?” “Um, whatever.”

00:37

So I thought, you know, this guy’s sick, he’s dying or something. So then it dawned on me about fifty miles up the road, this guy’s carrying his, he’s like a woman, carrying his equipment with him, you know, his sanitation equipment. And he’s out there on the road hitchhiking and he presumes everybody knows, and we’re stupid, we don’t know what he is. [laughs]

So I says, “We’re only going as far as Jacksonville.” So we dumped him, or her. He was willing to go anyplace. [laughs] You know, I’ve got a lot of intuition but there’s a lot of stuff, my intuition just don’t do me a damn bit of good. “Whatever.” I said, “You going to Arizona?” Finally he said something about Chicago. I said, “Well, we’re not going to Chicago. He wasn’t going anyplace.

01:49

This is a book – I’ve had books around for quite a few years. I read them quite a few years ago and they didn’t make any sense. And I thought sometimes that a lot of Hindu writings – it’s too, it’s like Thomas Merton’s stuff, a little bit syrupy and too much devotionalism in it and not enough hard logic.

02:23

Thanks a million. [somebody brings eyeglasses?]

Q. Sure.

R. Oh, you got the ones that weren’t broken.

Q. It’s ?? season for that.

R. Yeah. Some of this I can read, without them.

02:46

R. This is the Isa Upanishad. I’ve run into books that have the Upanishads in them, but this book here is dated, this is a first edition, 1938, Himalayas of the Soul. No author, but an editorial note by L. Cranmer-Byng and Alan Watts. Figure how old Alan Watts was in 1938. I think that’s ?? came from England, it’s from 50 Albemarle Street, London. Translated by J. Mascaro, MA Contab, [?] reader of English at Barcelona University, with a preface by Sri. S. Radhakrishnan. And there’s a dedication to Mrs. M. McKensey, a professor of education at University of Cardiff, gratitude in eternity, A.I.E. – I don’t know what that means. But I was really surprised at the, to find Alan Watts counting himself in on something like this.

03:59

But anyhow, the thing is that – I got the feeling, you know, you read a lot of religious literature, poetry and this, it’s supposed to be mood-provoking rather than information-giving. And so I wanted to read this and see what you pick up about it.

Behold the universe in the glory of God, and all that lives and moves on earth. Leaving the transient, set joy in the eternal. Set not your heart on another’s possession. Working thus, a man may wish for a life of a hundred years. Only actions are? done in God and not the soul of man.

There are demon haunted worlds, regions of utter darkness. Whoever in life neglects the spirit goes to that darkness after death. The spirit without moving is swifter than the mind. The senses cannot reach him, he is ever beyond them. Standing still he overtakes those that run.

To the ocean of being, the spirit of life leads the streams of action. He moves and he moves not. He is far, he is near. He is within all, he is outside of all.

05:17

Now I’m not going to read this whole book, but I picked out certain things.

When the sage sees this great Unity, and his Self has become all beings ...

He capitalizes S. Where somewhere I must have read this years ago, and that got me into the habit of writing capital-s Self, to distinguish between the carnal mechanism and the glandular stimulation of their thinking.

05:24

When the sage sees this great Unity, and his Self has become all beings, what delusion and what sorrow can ever be near him?

But of course, what he didn’t say also is, “What delusion and what happiness can ever be near him?”

06:18

Into deep darkness fall those who follow action; into deeper darkness fall those who follow knowledge. One is the outcome of knowledge, the other is the outcome of action. Thus have we heard from the ancient sages who explained the truth to us.

06:42

Now number one, I’m going to break this down. Into deep darkness [fall those who] follow action, into deeper darkness fall those who follow knowledge. And one is the outcome of knowledge and the other is the outcome of action.

07:06

Into deep darkness fall those who follow the imminent, into deeper darkness fall those who follow the transcendent.

Now this hit a kind of a snag. I don’t want to ask [you] any questions about it, because it puzzled me. You know there’s – in fundamentalistic theology they talk about the school of imminance and the school of er transcendence, or meaning, the belief that God is within and the belief that God is without. The belief that God is within us, and the other one is the belief that God is without us, and that we have to go find him. Physically and spiritually, ‘cause ...

07:56

the belief that God is without us and we have to go find him

possibly the voice is silent

these words that they use are undefined

dictionary definitions

those that retreat into the luxury of imagination

black magic

we study the atomic structure

alchemy takes people away from the truth

standing still he overtakes those who run

concept that when you enter yourself and become there is no longer action

he moves and he moves not

God is everywhere

what do you make of this?

each one of these little words has a tremendous meaning behind it

what’s the substance of the paradox

do we have any validation for this

is he just blowing wind or is he saying something profound

says 300-500 means 3,000 5,000 years ago

from antiquity

Christianity is much more recent than Hinduism

I’ve had this book packed away in the attic since I was a kid

Min 15 for Al Fitz: Rose: “I had the experience but couldn’t translate it for many years.”

Dancing Wu Li Master

Jim Cornie

dipoles

achronal

I’ve made this remark that science will ultimately vindicate mystical intuitions

we’re becoming mre amoral, less spiritual

Dancing Wu Li Masters

can get this same story from a Zen Master

light year

time and space in our mentality are inseparable

he is far and he is near

he is within all and outside all

Catholic word omnipresent

it seems like the photon is conscious

reaches this great unity and it becomes all being

a person doesn’t talking about loving themselves

min 21

one thing I can’t do

trying to get your heads open

will you please squeeze this into my head

when the sage sees this great unity

there’s nobody here but me

what are you people sitting here for?

what delusions and what sorrow can ever be near him?

people wnt happiness with the same person

min 23

Da << spells out a long name

while the offerings were being given

father, to whom are you going to give me?

a mortal ripens like corn

bring the offering

this is the voice of death

Death: through my for your father will remember you and love you as before

The fire is the means of obtaining the sacred wisdom

this fire of sacrifice should be known by your name

God of fire, the god who knows all things

27:00

When a man dies, this doubt arises

Death: The doubt arose even to the gods of old

No greater teacher than you can explain it

All these pleasures pass away

how short is all life

shall we enjoy wealth while you are in sight

there is a path of permanent joy and a path of pleasure

the fool chooses pleasure

path of wisdom

30:35

Now here we get into something that has some tremendously good advice

beyond delusion and sorrow

desire is the cause of unhappiness

desire for happiness is the cause of sorrow

R asks for opinions

Steubenville group

Kapitka

Some plumber, Fort Henry Club

does our wife love you?

No

cherubs in heave - feather duster, tickling people’s bottoms

hoping there’s a fun club up in heaven

37:50

I told this plumber, I don’t have to try to make mney

every Friday is when all my best bids come in

I just shut it down

I’ve got some entities doing my PR work

there were about 10 girls trying to make me all at once

they were sent here to disrupt

Jim Bakker is an example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker

The money came in and he sold out

min 41

Here’s $1,000 for Tat

the result is that we have property that I have to manage

I have to be the steward

where’s your balance?

talks about the community building and “the wing where we had lunch” << so this is the Chautauqua building. Lots of birds singing

Racetrack

study why the racetracks all failed

[file 1 ends at 44:27\

File 2

AM version: Total time = 15 minutes until it jams for good

SH-dm version: [check] 00:00

… there is an answer ohmmeter it has tro go on have to play the piano with both hands

start a group, find out why the groups failed Bakker, Rajneesh, Keith Ham

can’t sleep got beat with a lead pipe up and down the road in a 4-wheel drve has to chant 2 hours a day

had a police dog. let the dog drive the truck; it would be safer

Breakdown in the Upanishads

first one found the absolute truth

other one different tone

becomes like a fairy tale

the dialog is almost a testimonial

it’s the endorsement of a guru

It cannot be reached by …

the way to him is the teacher

Celeste is running for Governor of Ohio too.

05:30

all this universe is Brahma

Now I added something to that

A man must have faith, that I agree, faith in himself

by acting there’s aa possibility of something happening. With no action, nothing will happen

reads again

Perfumes – oops, we slipped again. Whoever wrote this is throwing out a bait.

[some girl objects]

Yes, but you’re sitting next to a guy who smells good.

In the first chapter some tremendous truths are spoken

approach the public

go down the pyramid

evidently it had an effect on me when I wrote the Three Books of the Absolute

back of my mind

Biblical tone in all the sacred writings

Next chapter perfume, dancing women, many children

First fellow, death is tempting us

business opportunities, all sorts of things

distracts you

concurrent with the acquisition of this realization

if you were a louse, you come back and live as a louse.

Q.

R. you won’t be the same type of louse

things not important

I think that sometimes a million dollars sweetens them up

Bucke reached kevala samadhi

everything in a perfect world

Q. imminence and transcendence

R. that was in the beginning of the book

reads again, adds some

but I didn’t read that part to you

you become like an encyclopedia

then you chop off your head.

Min 17

Dave was talking about this letter Bob Martin wrote

of course I razzed him all these years

mimeograph from the actual biography

Gary, do you know where Andy is? Iowa

I forgot what year I had my experience

I found it because I read these letters

reads from letter of 1947

she hates me. [laughter]

Start of ‘Deposition’

Copy this from: Deposition-of-Conclusions-of-Lifes-Philosophy

reads more from letter of June, 1955

The purposes of disposition, reminder of aims

moment of sidetrack

life contrary to the intention of a thinking mind

we must employ thought

I hold that man’s right to doubt is sacred

etc.

automaton with a parallel dream of what’s going on

Descartes never probed that it was he that was doing the thinking

etc. – copy from letter

When you’re giving a lecture somebody says, “hey, how do you know this is true?”

reads more from Deposition

taking a course of action by retreating from the absurd action

Catholic Church

reads more from Deposition

seek for individuality or survival

min 26:30 Do you get what I mean?

Ayatollah Khomeini

killed in one bardo to go to another

system of perpetual enslavement

reads more from Deposition

Before you do anything, set up a Ways and Means Committee

reads more from Deposition

I hold that we must that which we are before we can advance

In this respect the behaviorist with his bundle of conditioned reflexes may be very accurate

reads more from Deposition we desire - list of things

we’ll go back and become a millionaire

reads more from Deposition

Spinoza

reads more from Deposition

mentions Spinoza again

reads more from Deposition

perception may be preordained

desire planted from outside

fear is the con, desire is the pro

morays and AIDS

reads more from Deposition

desire to learn, desire to have fun, and the desire

I’ve read that kerosene shows signs of life

reads more from Deposition pleasure

gut becomes a millionaire

reads more from Deposition

sexual pleasure, ends in children

In choosing between these three desires lies our chance for free will, if we can be said to have a chance at all.

The seeming intent of creation was reproduction, while curiosity and the desire for immortality were balancers against anything that might hinder procreation.

End of ‘Deposition’

sh2-42:02

The very thing that was set up to ensure the fact that there would be procreation can be used to find out who you are. Meaning, in the process of finding out who you are, that there’s a possibility that somewhere down the line there’s another possibility that you might find out everything.

Of course, that was the end of the letter. That’s as far as Dave copied it.

42:36

Free Will and Choosing a Correct Path

Well, I’ll read this to you, then if you want to go back over anything, if you want to ask any questions about them we’ll go back to them.

This part is entitled “Free Will and Choosing a Correct Path”, choosing a correct means. It’s just like, if you’ve got free will, you can decide maybe five ways of trying to separate gold from brass or something There may be one way, there may be five different ways. So you have the free will to choose whichever chemical experiments you want to get into.

Laying claim to free will, or being able to obtain free will, would require us first to decide on who is going to perform acts of free will. If we realize that we are for the most part mere puppets, dangling from or with a thin cord of life? light? then it seems that the power or [and] uniqueness of that puppet are extremely limited. Suicide may be considered to be the singular self-directed act of any puppet’s life …

I think these guys, the existentialists, came to that conclusion seemingly, because a lot of them blew their brains out.

But cutting the cord eliminates self-consciousness

So you don’t have anything to think with, in other words. And how does he know he’s been separated, ceased to be a puppet? See what I mean? He may have ceased to be, period, or he may wind up in another bucket? with a vague recollection of having lived before.

Only an observer can hope to be self-conscious. And in the case of one who has committed suicide, if he spiritually survived death, he can cannot testify.

He may have gotten the right answer but we don’t know it. Nine chances out of ten we don’t want to run the risk.

In other words, it seems like the whole thing of life is so hopeless when you get into this idea of battling for a maximum answer in life. And that’s what you have to have.

One question leads to another question: Why do this? Why do that?

[file sh2 ends at 44:58]

File sh3

Free Will and Choosing a Correct Path

It seems like every turn turns into another headache

When his body experiences pleasure he says, “I am having pleasure.”

Nobody believes that their body is himself.

The observer also sees himself as a puppet

A superior self must scrutinize the physic

If a true observer commits suicide it will only occur after he has defined imselgf as Being

He will not die but will observe death

But the observer watches other things

The puppet cannot accomplish that which is in violation of or beyond the design

Or outside the course of nature

The things that the observer may change is of little interest to the observer

Q. (Mary?) Asks about an experience I had

Lots of times what you’re talking about is separation from the body

Once it separates it generally wants to get right back in

Brother smashed in a car wreck

06:50

08:30

People who left their body for a long period of time

Moody

Nice way to travel but it’s cheaper to go by Greyhound

I’ve often tried to analyze my experience as an observer

Then I realized that I was two people

Son of my mother

Programmed nature, genes, genetic pattern

Travel to a point beyond

That existence only occurs when you look at it

Brother get’s on the ceiling, “I’ll never be afraid to die.”

Is there a safe way to go? Do you need a compass?

Q.

Guardian Angel

Books on magic

HGA, guardian of the threshold

It may be more real than us, we a projection of it

It’s a nice theory

What’s you’re faced with is yourself

Most of our speculations in psychology are from a wrong point of reference.

4:30

Got to get closer to God then.

Don’t search for God, but then you’ve created something

25:00

I think the kindest thing we can do is not analyze what this lady is going through

She needs to recover her health

Q. Do you know where she’s coming from.

R. Yes.

Everybody here’s got a psychosis but they stow it until they leave.

She’s a case of tremendous hope. She has to go back and recapture her mundane self

Not looking out of her own eyes.

Pollyanna

This is a jungle

Personal, family stories

Footnotes

Appendix - Deposition

Paste from here: Deposition-of-Conclusions-of-Lifes-Philosophy Source: http://www.selfdiscoveryportal.com/arDeposition.htm

End