Difference between revisions of "1990-0215-Are-You-A-Robot-Ohio-State"

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Title	1990-0215-Are-You-A-Robot-Ohio-State
Recorded date	Feb. 15, 1990
Location	Ohio State University, Columbus. Ohio
Number of tapes	2 cassettes
Other recorders audible?
Alternate versions exist?
Source	Paul Schmidt
No. of MP3 files	3 files - 46 min, 46 min, 46 mim. Side 4 is blank
Total time	138 minutes = 2 hrs, 18 min
Transcription status	Extensive notes
Link to distribution copy	http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ (need password)
Link to PDF	http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ Or try http://selfdefinition.org/rose/
Published in what book?
Published on which website?
Remarks	This is different from Are you a Robot - Baltimore - 1986 http://direct-mind.org/index.php5?title=1986-0307-Are-You-a-Robot-Baltimore
Audio quality	Very good
Identifiable voices	Al Fitzpatrick, Chuck Conrad
URL at direct-mind.org	https://www.direct-mind.org/index.php/1990-0215-Are-You-A-Robot-Ohio-State
	For access to this wiki or the audio files please send an email to: editors@direct-mind.org
Revision timestamp	20150122203432

to check

File 4 located, only 2 min long. Must add to transcription file.

Not to be confused with 1986-0307-Are-You-a-Robot-Baltimore onSearchWithin.Org

Notes

Audio quality very good.

Present Al Fitzpatrick, Chuck Conrad

Also titled: "An Evening with Richard Rose"

File 1

45 min 35 sec

00:00

Well, we’re going to talk about some things here in the esoteric department. And there’s a field of inquiry that I’m sure some of you, if not nearly all of you know something about. Consequently I want to develop a communication, not a lecture.

Esotericism is a very wide subject in which there are many preconceptions, and there are many theories and beliefs about it. so to begin to talk in a particular vein might not ring a chord, a response, from most of the people here. So I’ve come to the conclusion that the best thing to do is have you express your interest.

01:17

For instance, I don’t – I remember the poster that was put up [which?]

see “robot-poster.jpg” at http://selfdefinition.org/rose/posters/

my lectures have been on Zen or something very similar, of an esoteric path, that required the application of the intelligence, the application of doubting, proving, not believing, ascertaining – instead of wishful thinking.

00:51

so there are different things you may be curious about

I’ll begin by introducing myself

Started as a Catholic very much of a fanatic only a child right out os grade school

Greek and Latin Summa Theologica

I left the seminary when I was seventeen

finished up at college near Wheeling

looking books and people who knew something

talk to the dead

chemist

Dover, Ohio White Lilly Chapel cement block building

minister from Steubenville, Ohio

about eighteen people in the room [same number of apparitions]

lit with a red light it wasn’t thing

it stood about “this” high. [Bob Cergol says “no more than three feet”] he called it Midget – it had a name it responded to. It called me Baldy, which was to kind of ridicule, make jokes with me.

05:42

But some of the people there – there were some phenomena there – I don’t like to go into all of them. If you’re curious about that – I’m no longer curious about it.

But naturally – we wanted to verify it, number one, that it was real; we told the fellow that before we went in.

06:00

And he became indignant. He was from Muskegon, Michigan. Drove down here. Charged three dollars apiece. So we counted the heads in the place and I think it was around fifty-four dollars that he would have got, for his trip from Muskegon, Michigan down here; so I thought, “This man can’t be in too much of a racket, because it’s not worth it.” He should have had a hundred at least to pay for the trip.

06:22

But he was still kind of irritated because we were doubting him. He says, “This thing don’t work good unless you believe.” So strangely enough, the two “people” who came out [were a num and a priest] – I gave him nothing about my background, I was a total stranger to him, I hadn’t seen him materialize before. This meeting where he had materialized these things before was in a minister’s private home in Steubenville, Ohio,

6:48

they had run some test on him gave him other clothes

Catholic priest and nun

spoke to him in Latin

vestments – black cassock surplice scarf stole

“Is Jesus over there?” “We’ve heard his name,” like he was a casual visitor or something.

08:53

But anyhow, I went away with the idea that I didn’t need to do any more research and talk to the dead, because the dead didn’t seem to know much

09:36

The reason I’m going through this – I dropped that inquiry. I went as far as you could go. You’re lucky in your lifetime is you see a genuine materialization. They are real; there are entities – don’t let any psychologist ever tell you there are not. They’re very real. And they – you can get them in a position where they will manifest, you’ll see them.

09:54

But I decided to look elsewhere, and I got into yoga.

years later I got into raja yoga

ran into some very profound people

tuning various centers of the body to revelation.

based in India

Beas Amritsar or someplace

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beas,_Punjab

Beas is a small town in the Amritsar District of Punjab state of India

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radha_Soami_Satsang_Beas

10:55

Although they were very wise men I discovered ther was, in my research into the Hindu methods [actually Sikh] that they were sort of making certain sensory organs doors to spiritual awakening. For instance we had a fellow come over here not too long ago

Maharishi Mahesh Yogi – Transcendental Meditation

auto-hypnotic

everything has a good beginning. How it turns out later depends on the salesman you hire to spread the word. And they always turn it into a profit, if possible.

12:31

Well, this is one of the things that you cannot, should not, ever – and when I was a young man this is one thing I made up my mind to. I would never pay for the truth. There is no price on the truth. There is no amount of money that you could pay that would equal its value. So why take less?

The pretense is that a man could do as he pleases all his life

“Rose, zap me. How much do you want?”

certain mental, physical condition that enables them to receive

even Christianity was polluted

Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:1-11

that was the punishment for keeping nickels out of the collection basket. So I got to wondering, why did they need a collection basket to begin with?

14:26

this goes down to a commodity you’re goinbg to pay for

Radha Soami

Kirpal Singh

15:04

I had an experience

“This is a big ego trip. Why should I be favored, to make this breakthrough, when there are millions of people in the country. And what me think I’m entitled to it?”

15:37

get married, raise some kids

16:06

But every once in a while I’d find myself in the library, finding a new discovery, a new book that had some revelation in it, and that would throw me back on the track

18:18

So I went out to Seattle, Washington for the express purpose of getting married

But anyhow, nothing came of it. There’s a whole amusing story behind it; but we agreed to disagree

started meditation, had rented a room

all I did was work, go to the library, read a bit maybe, and come home and meditate, and think. And one day I got a pain in the top of my head

“How are they going to get the body back to West Virginia?”

I went out the window

Cascade Mountains I went up in that direction

17:52

And when I got there things changed; when I looked back I saw humanity, I saw a pyramid of humanity – people climbing the mountain

some intelligence portrayed everyone that ever lived

18:29

I didn’t realize it until years later, that you can’t have two of them. One is the observer and the other is what was observed – a figure identified as my mundane self.

18:42

the observer s not that which is observed

you can study your actions but they are not you; they are objective, when you study them. When you put them outside and put them into the line of focus, they are objective

“Who’s looking?” And then you realize who’s looking.

this was absolute

fall in love

Gurdjieff was one of the greatest psychologists that lived in our time. We have no psychologists today. We have people who play with ideas but who know nothing about the human mind. Gurdjieff did, because he was a very good observer.

20:53

And he said there were five classes of men

The first class are the instinctive people. The instinctive people are the people who live to live

grab the pleasures of life, which the philosopher finds to be illusion

sex, booze, fighting, struggling, dominance

changes him love for another person

his instinctive nature is gone

22:33

nevertheless he will be changed by that emotion

something decides it form

from this emotional class of people you fill your churches

addicted to the word love

anybody who protests [to love]

“I will never lie to you. And I will never say that I love you. Because I don’t know what you would understand by the word love. But whatever is in me, I will prove to you – by my actions, not by my protestations.

23:47

And this is the way I think people should live 24:01

The emotion is good

so that the race will go on, and millions of people will remain on the face of the earth, for purposes that people little realize, what that real purpose is.

not guided by common sense

it’s just a method of making a living

I went into a temple, or church or whatever they call it. And this minister was up in the front and he pointed my out . I had just come in and I was standing in the back

“There’s a lady coming to you.”

described my mother in detail

“Does that sound like your mother?” He was psychic

“You’ve got the description but you don’t have the facts; she’s still alive.”

So you discover things like this along the road

you see in the newsreels the same thing in Iran

26:30

So you look a little deeper. And then you find there’s a class of people living – and have lived for over a thousand years – it goes back to the days of Kapila

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapila

when the United States only had Indians for inhabitants – American Indians – Kapila was chiseling his philosophy in stone or papyrus or something.

springboard for all the religions that came out of India

Patanjali c. 2nd century BCE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patanjali

patriarch behind all of the holy men

27:30

one guru tells a disciple and the disciple becomes a guru

28:16

I had a friend – I worked with him right here in Columbus, Ohio, in fact. he had done a lot of deep reading, and he used to use these words like sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi. And I’d say, “Shut up. Don’t bother me [with that]. tell me what you’re talking about, don’t give me these words.” Years later when I was thirty years old I knew what he meant – what he was talking about – he didn’t know what it was either, he was quoting it out of a book. But I knew what sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi was.

28:51

And the difference between that and kevala nirvikalpa samadhi

Ramana Maharshi

Paul Brunton

29:38

For instance there was a book written by Richard M. Bucke called Cosmic Consciousness

Steubenville minister and his wife next time we had a meeting she handed me this book

30:20

Incidentally, Bucke is the kevala samadhi – to him the world was transformed

drop a bucket into the well bucket is drawn out

sahaja is where the drop of water in the ocean

a very good analogy for the Western mind to pick up

31:24

So that is the – that happened when I was thirty years old

got into the contracting business

I learned after awhile to keep my mouth shut

been smoking the wrong type of dope

32:17

But I got in touch with a Zen teacher. And I didn’t get in touch with him – because – Zen also – this is the maximum experience in Zen.

I’ve heard people who have taken acid and said, “I’ve been enlightened.” So will he if he sticks his finger in an electric socket

32:59

So you have to define what happens

I didn’t expect to go any deeper into my experience, but I wondered, how could I talk to other people. How do you talk to other people?

1947 – 1950

We were having rough times. In 1938 we went to war – at least there was a conscription of men – and from that time on there was pretty much trauma in the country

1938 Hitler invades Austria

1940 began peacetime draft http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_States#World_War_II

Nothing was moving much except – for instance here in Columbus we were putting out the beginnings of the Black Widow, the Helldiver airplanes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_P-61_Black_Widow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_SB2C_Helldiver

in Columbus, Ohio; they had their factory out there. So everybody was busy working in the war planes

34:29

And then after that we had reconstruction, and there were no books on the market

no books available on this type of philosophy

everybody should go into defining themselves

Well, they have a little hunch that that preacher i phony

San Antonio, Texas

and this one man said to me, “To keep my kids out of jail.” I thought, “Boy, this is sad. You’ve got to twist this kid’s head around 360 degrees to keep him out of jail? Maybe he’s better off dead.” Who knows? Maybe he’ll go to jail, because of his fanaticism

36:19

But I saw it was very difficult to communicate. Because number one, the few books that came out, very few people had read them. The stuff that sells today is still the same as it was then – romance number one, adventure number two, and detective mysteries, that sort of thing

36:52

And I decided that Zen had the best language; the language was not a preaching, it was of asking questions. And this is the technique.

you’re working for the benefit of the individual, not for membership in your church.

his waking up is your pay. And if you want pay besides that, you want to get into another business

number one there’s no price on truth; you don’t pay preachers.

the other thing is, you do not become impressed by rituals, robes, titles, you know – this is nonsense; we’re all creatures of the mud, hoping to find that there’s a spark inside that pile of mud

38:51

when you set these guidelines in your searching, you’re not going to be dragged back into an emotional thing

the next, after the emotional level is the intellectual level, and that’s where you start saying mathematics, astrology numerology measuring the distance between places in the great pyramids of Egypt

futuristic science fiction

39:46

Once you start to block that out, you find there’s not much of a field left

incidentally, the path to realization is not the accumulation of wisdom. You cannot learn anything when it comes to these final truths. You can only become it. You do not learn the truth, you become the truth.

“I am the way, the truth and the life.”

“I am the truth.”

But looking in hindsight, I didn’t have an experience, I was an experience. What was left of me was an experience.

41:07

But you do not learn. Learning is confused by other learning. Learning is confused by egos that would like to believe that the rock candy mountain is more important

41:27

Zen enabled me to transmit

all the phases and tricks of Zen

Q &A

I’d like for some of you to ask some of the questions that are running through your head right now. Because this will be the beginning of the real communication here.

Q. you talk about the 4 questions – where are you at right now? more stable?

R. Yes, but why do you think I could translate to you how I define myself? What you want is a definition of my defining, isn’t it?

Q. Yes

R. Does a man – do not people go down the street sometimes and point at a man and say, “That’s an honest man.”? Or some girl, and say, “That girl’s a virgin.” How does he define her? How does he define her as a virgin? He’s right. He may be absolutely right. Percentage-wise – he may miss one out of fifty or so. But of course he doesn’t pick fifty virgins – there aren’t that many. But how does he do that? how does he know it?

43:17

And that’s what I say

basically, what you will know about me is through your intuition

I’ve done my best to give it to you with the word intuition

there are no psychology books that say, “This plus this equals that.”

We study the human mind.

pump that brain full of chemicals

changing the direction of their social lives

44:36

there’s not a psychologist in the country who knows what thought is

what sanity is, or insanity

normal curve

The purpose [?] of defining in the final analysis will be when you become one with the subject – or the object, whichever you wish to call it.

Q.

[tape ends 45:35]

[break in tape]

File 2

R. No, because you feel like a worm on the earth. And you’d like to be something a little better than a worm. And you want to know whether there is something better up ahead, rather than just living like a worm.

We all hunger for definition. Every – you go to tramp on a worm and watch – they try to get away from you. They’re not welcoming ecstasy. We’re programmed. We’re programmed to squirm like worms.

00:26

But we are not programmed to define ourselves. And this is where it takes a strong curiosity, a strong desire, a strong determination – to embark on a subjective search.

And of course as you go along you apply – some things are manifest – you can go to a certain religion, and you’ll find the reason why all the people are in that monastery, for instance – you’ll find the least common denominator, or most common denominator there. [?] And that’s scientific appraisal then. You say, “I judge – I don’t want any parts of that monastery because these people are not searching for their definition. Or they’re not preaching the truth, they’re running a business. And this isn’t what I want. I don’t want a business, I want an answer,”

01:18

there’s an urge in every animal to figure out, “How did I get here?”

don’t walk too close to the edge. Or don’t tangle with the bigger cats.

Q. meditation

R. nearly all the things put out today are in the wrong direction

meditate on happiness, bliss and all this nonsense

heaven to a lot of people must be a dream, of where these little cherubs are flying around through all eternity with these old feather dusters, tickling their bottoms as they pass, to keep them happy for centuries. That’s heaven.

03:13

So we’re stuck with a lot of these definitions, implications – they imply that we’re going to be happy forever. Why? What’s happiness? When you suffer so much pain and somebody takes away the pain, you’re happy.

that’s the lifestyle of the alcoholic.

04:21

Q. Your experience in enlightenment is interesting, but do you use this as some sort of baseline to live your life? Do you ...

R. I have no trouble living my life. If goes by. It goes right by me.

Q. Does it affect the way you live?

R. Not too much. They have an old saying in Zen, that before you have your experience, before you reach things, the mountains are mountains and the valleys are valleys. In your experience the mountains and valleys are no longer there. But when you come back, the mountains are once more mountains and the valleys are valleys.

05:02

Meaning that when you come back, you’ll still go to the toilet like any other animal. There’s nothing divine, quite yet.

05:18

I’ve got a hunch at what you’re asking for is that does it affect a change.

I’m not with the normal curve. There are only one in a million people who believe in following this exactly the way I follow it.

Q. Do you meditate?

R. I don’t do it deliberately

I’m a peripatetic.

this yogi posture doesn’t let you go to sleep so much, because if you do you might twist a leg when you roll over

06:53

Meditation should only be done for the purpose of observing pain in the past; don’t meditate and think you’re going to make yourself happy

07:15

in West Virginia one time when one of these guys came up to vote

literacy test

Abraham Lincoln George Washington

God? “Is his last name Damn?”

08:10

Q. Do you feel you’ve learned all the truth?

R. I know everything, but I don’t know the number of hairs on your head.

Q. What’s the meaning of your life?

R. I don’t know. I can’t describe it

I hope sometime before I die I meet somebody – I may already have met him; we have people in the groups – that will pick up the same realization and do the same thing.

That’s all you can do.

“Who am I to discover anything?”

According to Bucke only one in a million

09:43

And why? It’s because they’re focused on their programming – their programming to be good animals. Obey the laws, and when the time comes, put your head in the guillotine, and leave a fertile spot on the ground.

10:08

That’s supposed to be the role of everybody on earth. We talk it up among ourselves, that everybody’s supposed to do something for society. Why? What can we do for society? You mean we’re going to change things?

I get the feeling all the time that we’re all being manipulated. We are all being manipulated.

10:38

And – well, you think for yourself what the results of it are. There for awhile we had a bloodletting. I don’t think anybody in the world planned that. But I believe it’s programmed.

11:06

The one man – one man I met who was enlightened, he was from Texas.

Paul Wood

he didn’t have an answer for dropping this enormous egg on these people

he was from San Antonio

couldn’t get this out of his head

drinking a little bit too, perhaps

prayed for God to kill hoim. He said, “Take me out of here.” He passed out

13:25

After he woke up, [he said] he watched the beginning and end of history

13:54

Now he wanted to convey this to people

Any time you’re in trouble, pray the Lord’s Prayer

Whether that was the catalyst or not, I don’t know. People get on the trail by different means

14:44

but coupled with this there’s a certain power; this we don’t understand

temptation, it’s an ego trip

1972 we had people come from all over the east

headaches one man became possessed

nearly killed me

I didn’t come to be a healer, I came to convey some formula

15:56

So I brushed it aside and went back to just philosophy

ways and means committee

orderly approach to it

“I want to know how.”

First there are things you divest yourself of – that which distracts

plumber’s law – if you don’t want to lose the pressure i your water pipe, turn the spigot off

17:08

People with running spigots don’t amass too much in the line of intuition

And you have to be under pressure

17:19

We were talking about meditation – your meditation should be confrontational; by that I mean, don’t think about the good times you had, or the glorious times you’re going to have from pronouncing some sonorous word over and over and over.

What happened? You got punched in the nose. You got kicked.

17:55

go back further it’s childhood

from a peaceful person you became homicidal almost

And when you see it ego trip you drop it, and clarity comes in.

this is what real meditation does to you

visualization is the curse

19:42

Q. ... animal instincts. What do you think is the purpose of our consciousness manifested in this physical reality?

R. We’ve been had. Very simple. We’ve been had. We are put here – we’re guessing all sorts of things as to why we’re here – we’re not getting the right answer. And it’s very possible we’re here for a multiple purpose. There’s a certain energy that humans produce which attracts, if not feeds – I’m saying this very carefully – entities from another dimension. Why? I don’t know.

20:50

I don’t know what all the details of this programming, this engineering – there’s tremendously complex engineering

neurotransmitters

interlocking particles in the machinery of a drop of blood

no evolution could have brought this about

the lizards and the flying lizards

the predators would have them all eaten

22:13

Q. When you speak of the programming

R. Right. And we – there’s a – people have sort of picked this up

they sense it so they get into things like astrology

maybe there’s some key

22:59

Where I notice it more distinctly is in children. If you watch the behavior of little children, you’ll see them doing things. You don’t think children have any evaluation of life – and I’m talking about kids five, six, seven years old.

orphanage

He’s chant this over and over: “Snow, snow go away, come gain somre other day.”

He said, “No, no; if it knows you want it to snow, it will not snow.”

23:55

See what was going through his head>? That somewhere deep in nature there was something perverse to the benefit of man.

24:20

But somewhere, there’s something behind the scenes, all the time. But you can’t put your hand on it. So that’s another hazard you’ve got to get by

these things are moving you in a certain direction

you have to stop it

you call a halt to the whole procedure